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Marijuana or Alcohol
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Jan 5, 2018 06:10:58   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
sb wrote:
That is a large part of the point in Jesse Ventura's book: Marijuana Manifesto. It is a very interesting read.

One has to be careful in watching how people use statistics (always!). Recently there have been reports of pot causing more fatal accidents in Colorado. However, what the studies have shown is that more drivers involved in fatal Colorado accidents than in the past have marijuana in their bloodstream. That is not surprising, since it may be detected for weeks after use - long after any impairment has worn off. The often-missed fact is that Colorado has seen a decline in fatal accidents. So - there is no cause and effect indicated by the information being touted.

My concern with recreational marijuana as opposed to alcohol, though, is that people use marijuana to get stoned, whereas many people such as myself do not use alcohol to get drunk - a glass of wine with dinner for example.
That is a large part of the point in Jesse Ventura... (show quote)


Coupla tokes on the pipe is good to mellow the head without getting flat out wasted.

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Jan 5, 2018 06:20:43   #
James Slick Loc: Pittsburgh,PA
 
kymarto wrote:
Coupla tokes on the pipe is good to mellow the head without getting flat out wasted.


1 Yuengling and 2 shots of Jim Beam is relaxing without getting bombed. (At least that's what works for me.)

Same concept. Some smokers get real stoned, Some just a little buzz.

The user decides.

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Jan 5, 2018 06:38:16   #
leftyD500 Loc: Ocala, Florida
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I'm amazed at the negative comments about the legalization of marijuana in California. Abuse of alcohol causes violence and traffic deaths, yet it has no benefits. People who drive while high can also cause traffic deaths, but pot has proven medical benefits. Consider the millions of dollars wasted by law enforcement pursuing pot users. Among of the supporters of pot laws is the for-profit prison industry and the politicians who support it. It's to the benefit of both of them to get as many people as possible into prison, so decliminalizing pot is going to hurt them financially.
I'm amazed at the negative comments about the lega... (show quote)


Spin it however you want, but, we will experience the same devastating problems with the legalization of pot as we have with the legalization of alcohol. Yes, certain chemicals in marijuana have medicinal value, but, smoking pot is not adding to that medicinal value. Those who want to will 'PUFF AWAY," but, those who choose not to should not be badgered with this fake mentality. I will never support the "toker society!"

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Jan 5, 2018 06:52:13   #
Cookie223 Loc: New Jersey
 
machia wrote:

Just what we need here where car insurance policies are $1,200 & up per year . His justification is to raise money through its taxation to pay for his screwball ideas , including making NJ a Sanctuary State . Law enforcement is delighted to have this idiot to take office in a few weeks .
And he promises to raise property taxes even more !
Who elected this fool ?


Other fools & idiots!🤤

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Jan 5, 2018 07:14:12   #
clint f. Loc: Priest Lake Idaho, Spokane Wa
 
nimbushopper wrote:
The problem to society with pot is that there is no field test(like a breathalizer for alcohol) to determine whether a driver is impaired and shouldn't be on the road. Only a blood test can do that so the driver would have to be arrested first.
Point of clarification: Intoxicated drivers are examined by drug recognition experts when no obvious signs of drinking intoxicating beverages. It starts with the bad driving to allow a stop (probable cause) and then observations of the drivers level of impairment. These tests are like the standardized roadside field sobriety tests, but with more specificity. The DRE's are certified after extensive training. Implied consent allows you to be tested as a condition of getting a drivers license and blood draws are often done, and always in injury or fatality collisions. Washington State and the National Highway Safety folks have studied the issue of impaired driving for decades. In every fatal Collision a blood draw is taken from the deceased persons and is sent to the State Patrol crime lab for testing by gas chromatography mass spectrometry analysis. The results they have published indicate in a large percentage of the fatal wrecks the causing driver is impaired by at least one and oftentimes two or more substances. The most common combination is alcohol and marijuana, This combination is synergistic in that each increases the affect of intoxication more than the same amount of either substance. Kind of 1+1=3. Divided attention tasks, such as driving, are far more difficult when impaired. It is even worse with Methamphetamine or Opioids as the companion drug. Contrary to what the proselytizers would have you believe you are probably still affected by marijuana after the "buzz" wears off which creates a whole other can of worms. I can only speak of Washington State but I think most states do not send people to jail for simple possession, haven't since the mid 70's. In Wa even a person dealing small amounts would not result in a jail sentence the firs time according to the sentencing guidelines. While there are some positive medicinal anecdotes it is not the wonder drug the cheerleaders would have you believe. Consider this, would you want Captain Scully flying you to your favorite destination after bonging out for a couple hours? Would he have been able to perform the landing he made in the Hudson river with even the slightest hint of impairment? Do you want to walk into the Dr's office where you are getting Lasik surgery on your eyes to see Dr. Feelgood toking out in his office before your surgery? Want your kid to come home with a report card showing the true effects on his brain? It's not some giant conspiracy to get your liberty, your guns, to keep prisons in business or give the DEA a reason to exist, they have bigger fish to fry. It's science.

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Jan 5, 2018 07:15:42   #
Cookie223 Loc: New Jersey
 
For the last 35 years, I have been a transportation consultant for the trucking industry. That’s not including 15 years of driving cross country.

Distracted driving is at an all time high, it’s bad enough that people can’t put down their phone while driving, and now a we’re adding pot to the mix.

Federal law prohibits driving while under the influence. State and federal law also prohibits driving while using a cell phone. Law enforcement has done very little to enforce these laws, and they are just as guilty using a cell phone themselves. Society has become so dependent on using phones that they are falling down stairs, walking into walls and poles, and causing serious injuries, including death to themselves and innocent bystanders.

I agree if a person wants to smoke a joint, or drink themselves into a stupor they need to stay home, until they are sober to drive.

BTW, don’t assume that using a hands free phone is not distracting, it most certainly is.

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Jan 5, 2018 07:49:14   #
JeffL Loc: New Jersey
 
Some have said that people who use medical marijuana are unproductive lazy dregs of society that use cannabis to avoid reality. Everyone of my patients, except for the disabled, are productive members of society. The cannabis relieves their pain, anxiety, PTSD, or whatever they are suffering from, and enables them to live normal, functioning lives. These people are businessmen, healthcare professionals, attorneys, therapists, steelworkers, teachers and construction workers. Virtually every profession or trade is represented. To say these people avoid reality is absolute bullshit. They use cannabis so they can function. There are downsides to anything we ingest or breath, except maybe fresh water, but so far I have seen people really helped by cannabis.

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Jan 5, 2018 08:08:37   #
jcave Loc: Cecilia, Kentucky
 
For what it’s worth- Quality of life, happiness and the effects that a behavior, action or lifestyle has on others is at the heart of whether or not to legalize or criminalize anything. Personally, I am not for or against legalization of pot at this moment, but do urge the taking of responsibility for all consequences. Some are going to benefit while others may pay a heavy toll. In general I see quality of life suffers when an individual places greater value on anything more important to them than personal health, family health and the health of society.

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Jan 5, 2018 08:20:42   #
JeffL Loc: New Jersey
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Actually if you had pursued your idea you would have discovered that the ban on Marijuana followed the end of the prohibition. The whole thing was political in order to keep the Federal Bureau of Narcotics alive... It helped the FBI too.

Reasons for it?

A sinister murder event coming out of Florida about a Marijuana addled man (Victor Licata) was used to start the whole thing. While already mentally ill and recognized as such he became the poster boy that fed a media frenzy. The public hysteria was further fueled by the Federal Bureau of Narcotics director's outlandish statements.

Prior to that no one even saw Marijuana as a problem worth looking at. The US forced other countries to place a ban on it using hardball diplomacy and economic pressure. First two to cave in were... Mexico and Canada!!! Guess why?

Since then millions have paid for the hypocrisy behind the 'ban'. Only difference? Marijuana was not as common as alcohol so one cared about this as much as they cared about their 'nightcap'.
Actually if you had pursued your idea you would ha... (show quote)


You are correct on your history. Add William Randolph Hearst writing editorials in his newspapers, because hemp threatened his timberland and paper mills, and the pharmaceutical companies all lobbying Congress. Anslinger added fuel to the fire by concocting 200 cases of how this “devil weed” was destroying people. Since Congress wasn’t any smarter then than they are now, they passed the Marijuana Stamp Act Of 1937 which said you had to buy a stamp in order to grow marijuana, but no stamps were made available. Then the feds produced “Reefer Madness”, a pure propaganda movie. Ironically, during WWII another movie was produced called “Hemp for Victory” because they needed hemp to make ropes for the Navy. You can find it on YouTube.

Nixon passed the current law, The Controlled Substances Act in 1970, which made marijuana a Schedule I drug because he needed leverage against the Vietnam War protestors, who mainly came out of the ‘60s hippie generation. He couldn’t get them for protesting. He made marijuana illegal so he could arrest them. This was supposedly admitted by John Ehlichman in a later interview. That is how this relatively benign plant ended up in the same schedule as heroin and LSD. Meanwhile, opioids, which are killing thousands of Americans every year, are Schedule II and legal.

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Jan 5, 2018 08:26:17   #
Goober Loc: Southeastern PA
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Nah, nothing as scientific as how well pot works, just visited many time over the last few years while son was undergoing transplant therapy...just the general degeneration of the city was obvious. But then again we all have our opinions and neither will likely change



That’s just it.....
Your statement is your closed-minded OPINION, not based on facts!

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Jan 5, 2018 08:33:17   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
melismus wrote:
We tried the alcohol ban back in the 1920s. Does anyone remember how well it went?


I think that should be one of the points, Prohibition caused organized crime, perhaps if things are legal thee will not be enough profit in them for the baddies to bother.

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Jan 5, 2018 08:46:47   #
Stephan G
 
jerryc41 wrote:
.... I wonder if they lower the rates for dry counties, where drinking is not allowed.


They should not. Many dry county denizens load up before they go home, driving. It used to be that many dry counties also carried bootlegging statutes, which gave rise to NASCAR. All alcohol was consumed before entering home county. It used to be a joke about determining whether county was dry by the pile of empty bottles and cans of alcoholic beverages on the outside of the county line.

My bro-in-law got ticketed for bootlegging years back because he had NJ stamps on liquor bottles when stopped in Tenn spot check.

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Jan 5, 2018 08:49:50   #
coyotecall Loc: New Mexico
 
Find and read "Chasing the Scream" (I've forgotten the author, but the book is quite available). The "War on Drugs" was not just aimed at vets, it was aimed at blacks.....still is. This book tells the story of how America was seduced into a hugely damaging social policy all based, as usual, on fear. Don't pass this one by.....it's important.
JeffL wrote:
You are correct on your history. Add William Randolph Hearst writing editorials in his newspapers, because hemp threatened his timberland and paper mills, and the pharmaceutical companies all lobbying Congress. Anslinger added fuel to the fire by concocting 200 cases of how this “devil weed” was destroying people. Since Congress wasn’t any smarter then than they are now, they passed the Marijuana Stamp Act Of 1937 which said you had to buy a stamp in order to grow marijuana, but no stamps were made available. Then the feds produced “Reefer Madness”, a pure propaganda movie. Ironically, during WWII another movie was produced called “Hemp for Victory” because they needed hemp to make ropes for the Navy. You can find it on YouTube.

Nixon passed the current law, The Controlled Substances Act in 1970, which made marijuana a Schedule I drug because he needed leverage against the Vietnam War protestors, who mainly came out of the ‘60s hippie generation. He couldn’t get them for protesting. He made marijuana illegal so he could arrest them. This was supposedly admitted by John Ehlichman in a later interview. That is how this relatively benign plant ended up in the same schedule as heroin and LSD. Meanwhile, opioids, which are killing thousands of Americans every year, are Schedule II and legal.
You are correct on your history. Add William Rand... (show quote)

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Jan 5, 2018 09:12:21   #
Stephan G
 
The driving force of many laws is how much money can be garnered for the till.

Alcohol production and marijuana growing are two examples of being next to impossible to levy taxes on. They can be done by anyone and anywhere. (I am sure that many can tell me of another industry that has the same problem.) The only path governments have is to make them completely illegal to possess, unless licensed by said government. The key word is possession. Manufacture is just a secondary charge, opening to feds for over-border transportation violations.

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Jan 5, 2018 09:15:32   #
JeffL Loc: New Jersey
 
coyotecall wrote:
Find and read "Chasing the Scream" (I've forgotten the author, but the book is quite available). The "War on Drugs" was not just aimed at vets, it was aimed at blacks.....still is. This book tells the story of how America was seduced into a hugely damaging social policy all based, as usual, on fear. Don't pass this one by.....it's important.


Racism as a motivation against marijuana started in the late 20s. Marijuana was popular among jazz musicians, who were mostly black, and a lot of it came from Mexico. So, brown and black people doing weed made it really bad. Anslinger was an admitted racist and went after marijuana users because of “their satanic music and using marijuana to get white women to have sexual relations with them.” (His public statement)

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