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Mar 30, 2017 08:13:56   #
Keenan wrote:
You keep blurring the line between government ownership of the means of production, vs regulation. It makes no sense to not differentiate the two concepts. Twardlow never gave any indication that regulation = socialism. Rather, he clearly gave a much more narrow definition of socialism defined as government ownership of the means of production, period. You should go back and re-read his posts if you are unclear on this.

Anyway, if you are not opposed to all regulation, then we are in agreement. I believe some regulation is necessary, and that there is a point where regulations may go too far. Where that line is is open to debate (although not open to debate with fanatical lunatic purists like PP who claims that any regulation is evil, which is asinine...although he contradicts himself...in his last post he finally admitted that some regulations to protect the environment are necessary after he previously said that any and all regulation is evil socialism, so he can't seem to make up his mind).
You keep blurring the line between government owne... (show quote)


Again I did not say that any regulation is evil. "Tragedy of the commons"
You are again making up an argument so you can have a perceived win.
Twardlow dropped the half of the equation of "regulate".
To control or regulate the means of production can be worse than own it.
You continue to say what others believe instead of stating your case, effectively fighting a Paper tiger.
You continually create a strawman to advocate and promote socialist ideals.
I truly do not believe you can even see this in yourself.

Please show me and where I said that "any and all regulations is evil"
You cannot do that.
Because I advocate free market solutions does not equate to any of your statements.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:00:48   #
Keenan wrote:
So you are a socialist! Glad you finally came around!


No. Because I do not advocate Socialist policy.
You, clearly advocate socialist policy.
I accept that there must be some regulation. "Tragedy of the Commons"
I advocate free market policy.
Drug Regulation for example could be done in the free market.
There would be more of a net gain to society than having the government do it.
Prices would come down. Less people would die because drugs could come to market quicker. Drug companies would make less. There would be more competition.
I don't need the government to tell me what is safe or what works. We have Doctors for that, the internet, consumer reports.......
Real simple.
Perhaps you think this is deluded to not tax people to pay for things like the FDA.
If I did not work or want to work and had no problem living off the hard work of someone else, I would have no problem with government doing everything for me at the expense of someone else..
That simply is not my morality.
I'm ok with that.
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Mar 29, 2017 12:51:52   #
jim quist wrote:
So if you open the Talmud which is a discussion of the Jewish Law. You will see the Mishnah printed in the center of the page and the Gemerah printed around it. The Mishnah are the legal codes, and the Gemara is a commentary on them. There is also the Tosephta, which is a supplement to the Mishnah, and the Gemera which is a commentary on the Mishnah.

There are two Talmuds, the Babylonian and a Palestinian.


Cool,
I never knew that either.
I always like to learn.
I tend to know a little more about English Common law and Constitutional law.
I need to hit google or WIKI and learn a little more.
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Mar 29, 2017 12:48:59   #
green wrote:
our entire paradigm of relationships in this universe is based on contrasts and comparisons... but I will give it a try.


I think a secondary point of the video is our comparison model is flawed.
We see all the benefits of our way of thinking but fail to see the flaws in it.
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Mar 29, 2017 12:39:59   #
chrisscholbe wrote:
I agree with everything in the video.

We are loosing sight of what's right vs what's convenient.

What's right isn't always convenient for us.

We should always do what's right.

I was "aware" of the Talmud, but not familiar with all of it's contents.


The point of the video is about individual morality and ethics.
It is addressed to an individual's obligation to be t***hful to ourselves and to others.
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Mar 29, 2017 12:36:16   #
green wrote:
Is it wrong for a fish to steal your bait?... if it's going after your worm, it would seem there's an obligation to get caught. And what if you're using a lure, and there is no worm?

I tend to disagree with Mr. Praeger on a number of issues. His points are well thought out, but based on some shakey assumptions.

According to Mr. P, if you and your friends went to the mall to "hangout" without the intention to purchase something, your would all be guilty of theft. I would suggest that a business creates an positive environment where commerce can occur. The obligation's of the customer are set by the business itself.

I have had salesperson's tell me where I can buy the same (or better product) at a competitor's... and yet I have come back to the same store to make other purchases because my previous experience was of a helpful salesperson.
Is it wrong for a fish to steal your bait?... if i... (show quote)


Your assumption that his assumption was shaky is shaky.
In his example he used a salesman time. In the Mall example you use the Mall space.
He did mention using the resources of the store which would include it's space.
Typically people will go to a mall and hang out and eat.
Kids go to the mall and hang, which probably isn't a good idea anyway, not that there needs to be a law against it.
Prager never said anyone was guilty of Theft according to the law.
Obviously you cannot legislate morality although liberals and conservatives both try to do this.
His second example is of women going to a clothing store to use a dress for an event and after the event returns the dress.
I know woman who have done this.
It is immoral and unethical to do so.

I happen to think it is completely moral to call a store and ask for a price.
The owner in that case would know I am price shopping.
I guess you could say I am looking at the principle of what he says and not trying to find the flaws and exceptions.

I had a friend who owned a Technology store that went out of business because he was priced out of business based on the internet.
People would come into his store collect information about a product and not buy anything.
I actually think he should have gone out of business... based on free market principles.
That being said, I cannot defend the morality of people who pump a salesman for information fully intending not to buy a product when they walk in the door.

I also defend Mall owner rights to ban loitering.
I also would never let my children loiter.
Prager is addressing individual morality in this video.
He is addressing what is right and wrong, not the law.

When I go to wall mart and shop I always return my cart to the cart holder. I usually take a cart from the parking lot when I go in.
That is my morality. It helps Walmart keep their cost down by not having the cart guy do as much work....Adds value to Walmart so that a Cart collector could maybe stock and block some more items.

It sound like you have a complete ethical relationship with your salesman.
Congratulation.
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Mar 29, 2017 11:43:25   #
I had never heard of the Talmud.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEMd6NDT5Z8
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Mar 29, 2017 11:40:27   #
green wrote:
would be nice if we could get Donald to watch this video.


Quit comparing......
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Mar 29, 2017 11:28:19   #
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MPG-aLD-EY
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Mar 29, 2017 11:05:46   #
Keenan wrote:
No, that's not what Twardlow said. He did not say regulation = socialist.

To claim that regulation = socialist is absurd. Pure unregulated capitalism doesn't work. It tends to self-destruct in short order. Regulations are needed at a minumum to break up monopolies, prevent people from being poisoned or k**led in the name of profits, to outlaw fraud and stabilize markets, outlaw s***ery and inhuman practices which may be profitable but inhumane. Without such regulations, capitalist systems tend to either 1) become unstable and self-destruct at wealth is quickly aggregated to the top and demand is destroyed as the majority of the population are impoverished, or 2) get o*******wn by the masses when exploitation and inhumane treatment become too much to stomach.

Pure unregulated capitalism exists only in the dreams and fantasies of those with absolutist, fanatical, delusional ideological purity who don't understand history and why most normal (non-sociopathic) human beings eventually demand regulations to protect normal human values from being destroyed by unscrupulous capitalists who would put profit above all other considerations. The idea in "pure capitalism" that profit can be placed above all other values - health, environment, safety, fairness, life, democracy, etc., is sociopathic and inhuman. People with such a ridiculous absolutist ideological concept of capitalism "untainted" by regulations or taxes propose such a radical fanatical "pure" ideology that they would make even ISIS blush.
No, that's not what Twardlow said. He did not say ... (show quote)


You seem to draw out these fanatical scenarios and label people who "Advocate" Capitalism as being some purest.
I do not advocate "Pure unregulated Capitalism". I clearly stated that would not work.
You seem to think Capitalist ignore or negate the rule of law.
You obviously did not read my entire write up here.
You also seem to demonize and draw extreme views of anything you do not profess.
I would agree that there has to be some regulations by government. Our environment is one of them.
Libertarian type thought breaks down on "The Commons" aka Tragedy of the Commons.
When things like air and water are shared across space and land. (I can pollute your space or land and not even be on your land). Laws and regulations must be in place to protect that.
S***ery is illegal....Rule of law.
I believe it is kinder and more humane for a capitalist to give a man a job, than have a government steal from the rich so the poor do not have to work.
There is no utopia. I have said this many times.
Both Classical liberalism(I am a classical Liberal) and socialism are polar opposites where the scale is sliding.
The further you move toward Classical liberalism the better off your society is.
This is how we became the greatest nation on earth through Classical liberalism.
Capitalism is only the economic side of the political ideology of being classically liberal.
Socialism only addresses the economic side of a society.
Liberalism today is nothing what Liberalism was for the first 150 years of our country.

Governments gain power through tragedy.
War breaks out and we tax...aka...The Marshall plan.
We have a depression and we Tax or have a war to bring us out of the Depression.
Each time a tragedy has occurred in our country we as a people have lost liberty.
All societies have tragedy. People in power want to "Fix" the problem.
Most times the problem is self correcting over time.
We live in a society of instant pleasure, the instant fix, the quick solution.
The reason that people get wealthy is they can postpone pleasure.
They sacrifice today for what they may have tomorrow.
Socialist can not do this. They promote government because they want the instant fix.
They want someone to pay for someone else in the name e******y. It's the quick fix.
The socialist fails to see the long term unintended consequences of socialist policy.
The socialist only recognizes instant pleasure because it "FEELS" good.
Socialist policy often FEELS good but rarely does good.
The idea of FEELING good about oneself and their belief is fundamental to socialist thought.

Here's a video on Feeling good vs Doing good.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOb_z-yYrU&t=119s
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Mar 28, 2017 17:28:34   #
rmalarz wrote:
Russ, this appears to be an excellent example of gun control.
--Bob


"God made man...Samuel Colt made man equal"

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Mar 28, 2017 16:07:37   #
http://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-getaway-driver-charged-murder-183108050.html
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Mar 27, 2017 22:18:02   #
Texcaster wrote:
Only my dog thinks I'm a thought leader. However I've given many Tex Talks while showing my basses at guitar shows and festivals. The techniques do work but it does help when the customer can put the bow to the bass. Does the bow make my eyebrows look smaller?


Cool bases...One looks like a coffin....Ideal for a band named the coffineers.
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Mar 27, 2017 19:35:35   #
green wrote:
I agree, this is nothing new... also many Ted talks depart from this "script".

PP mentioned his general dislike of graphs, here's literally the first Ted talk I selected...3 ways to spot a bad statistic... a woman of color, with a cockney accent, wearing a miniskirt looking like a rock star's groupie...

http://www.ted.com/talks/mona_chalabi_3_ways_to_spot_a_bad_statistic

however, if you listen to her and comprehend her actual words, she is very compelling and presents actual useful information... being a discriminating gatherer of information, one has to routinely filter out all this type background noise and intentional bias that professional showmen like Limbaugh, Beck, Jones and others use to garner agreement with their agendas.
I agree, this is nothing new... also many Ted talk... (show quote)


Come on Green. You left out all the liberals. LOL
The next time you look at UCR(FBI) take it with a grain of salt.
Their are gold in them their mountains, but the mountains is a bunch of garbage.
97 percent of people will agree with me on that...If they are on my team, otherwise....They're fired....
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Mar 27, 2017 19:14:52   #
mwalsh wrote:
Must frustrating for a pure capitalist to have to live in such a socialist world...all the "free" countries of the world are socialist from this point of view.


Not frustrated.
A bit sad to see us moving in one direction, and China moving in the other....A China who will likely eat our lunch in the long run.
Most countries are to varying degrees socialist....Even this one somewhat in the beginning.
I h**ed to see the lease run out on Hong Kong in the 1990's.
Hong Kong was truly the city that never slept. A flat 5% tax. It had the most populated square mile in the world.
I view socialism on a sliding scale. The further you slide into it, the more the people who are supposed to be helped are harmed.
You end up having more real problems than perceived problems.
The real problem you have in the end is your ability to produce goes down under a socialist state.
Again the scale is sliding. The more you move the doers and make them controllers, the less resources you have to produce.
The less wealth you create.
Really simple concept.
I am not an ideologue although I can see where some might think so.
There is no utopia.
I advocate free markets....It does not mean I do not accept non free market(government) solutions, when they are necessary.
The key word in all of this is advocate.
True Capitalism is an unkown ideal that will and can never happen.
Never the less I am a capitalist. I promote and encourage free market solutions in most cases.
What I find interesting is that I can say that I am a capitalist because of what I advocate.
Many people can not call themselves socialist even though every side they take is on the side of promoting a bigger government and regulation.
Classical liberalism is nothing what Liberalism has evolved into today.
Politically I consider myself a "Classical Liberal".
Economically I consider myself Capitalist.
To be a Classical Liberal, I would have to be a Capitalist.....
The political ideology of Classical Liberalism aligns with the Economics of Capitalism.
I truly don't get to uptight about my positons. I like to think they are pretty well thought out.
I do seem to get others very uptight.
One of the things I do like about you...Is you really don't start all the name calling and demonization...
I know we all have our moments.
Classical Liberals are some of the most tolerant people on earth. We are outnumbered typically on both sides of and argument.
We have to be tolerant...... or take meds.....

One final note about being free.
I use the term Liberty.
"There is no greater tyranny for a man to have to pay for that which he does not want simply because you think it is good for him."
Robert Heinlein.
Most people want their selected liberty. They have no problems imposing on someone else's Liberty.
The peace activist has no problems v****g the gun owners rights away.
The Health activist has no problem forcing someone else to pay for others medicines and health care. Even though that person may believe they die when they die and has no want or need for health insurance.
The Restaurant owner has no problem regulating the street vendor out of business because he takes business from him(Crony Capitalism)
The Drug companies have no problems with regulations that stifle new startups with regulations, because it protects their markets(Crony Capitalism)
Taxi cab drivers in New York have no problem with regulations that prevent other people starting up a Cab company.(It cost 1 million dollars per car for license)
Austin Texas even Banned Uber because of the "Taxi Lobby"
The list goes on with what regulation and socialism does....The unintended consequences.
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