silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.

Faith---believe in me or you burn in hell.
Morals---during WW2 the pope supported and blessed the Nazis and Hitler.
History---the crusades and the inquisition.
Science---If it was up to conservative christians science books for children would have man playing and living with dinosaurs.
Reason---Who in their right mind could believe that the earth was created in 6 days? Also there was no sun for the first few days so how could there be a day without a sun?

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

:thumbup:

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

A day is the amount of time it takes for the Earth to make one complete revolution on its axis. It is therefore impossible to have days before the Earth and Sun were formed, yet the Bible has that happen. At the formation of the planet that was actually shorter, not longer than it currently is. Finally, a day was never anything other than the revolution of the Earth on its axis, so it is inconceivable that it had another meaning when Genesis was written, and to create an arbitrary meaning for the word only confuses, not clarifies the alleged word of god. Your response is a sophomoric attempt to salvage the integrity of a ridiculous book by redefining terms.

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

BangeeFive: What James is saying is that if you do have faith and you are a true believer then your faith should show good works.

Nagy: What James is saying is nonsense. Belief does not necessarily entail corresponding action. just about everyone knows that stealing is wrong, yet many of these same people will steal if they thunk they can get away with it.

Bangee: It is not that good works will save you but that your faith will show good works as proof that you are saved.

Nagy: Your interpretation is not a universally accepted Christian one. The three major branches of Christian theology are justification through:

1. faith and good works (Catholic)

2. faith alone (Lutheran)

3. predestination (Calvinistic)

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

James 2:14-26. Read it yourself.

TrainNut Loc: Ridin' the rails

I love James. He is so clear on so many things. :thumbup:

This is my favorite.
James 2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do

magicray Loc: Tampa Bay, Florida

Train, i can see that you find your Bible quote inspirational. I however find it quite nonsensical. In other words, if an unwise person wishes to be wise, he asks god and god says 'if you believe what I tell you without question or doubt then you will receive wisdom from me and become wise'.

This to me is blind faith. To believe that someone can gain wisdom by having it given to them by some supreme diety is unwise in its self let alone the concept of believing without doubt. Wisdom is acquired through years of life's experiences not a gift you are given.

I would certainly rather be double minded than singleminded.

"So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — If there be God — please forgive me — When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul. — I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul."

------Mother Theresa

silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.

So prove otherwise.

TrainNut Loc: Ridin' the rails

magicray, Do you believe in supernatural?
Have you ever had a experience that can not be explained by natural means?

Photofortytwo Loc: England. Now living outside DC

Your god deceives you. It is there in the bible, he deceived Abraham, he deceived Adam. He is a deceiver.
Stop pedaling your unsubstantiated bull poop.
The sooner we unshackle ourselves from this religious nonsense the better this world will be.
I am a good person, not because I am told to be good, but because I want to be good. Do you need to be told? What does that say about you and your morals?
You religious folk are responsible for so much that is egregious in our society. It is so self serving. "Your right and everybody else is wrong!" There are over 41,000 different types of christianity. That is not including islam judaism. For "Zeus" sake. Pick one already you can't all be right. But you can all be WRONG! After all I only deny one more religion that you do.
Go on, be strong, shake the silly shackle of religion. Breath the air of common sense, it is very sweet. And it leaves your sundays free to take photos.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

So we trade our religion for your religion? You think that your religion is any better. The only thing your religion offers is Sunday off. You do believe that God exist, how else could God deceive us as you believe. You are just one more person who does not know a personal God. You are the one being deceived - by the world. Being you don't accept the grace of God you don't want others to believe. Do you really think that we would give up what we have for what you have to offer. Jesus said that not a one of us can be plucked from his hands.

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Nut: magic ray, Do you believe in supernatural?
Have you ever had a experience that can not be explained by natural means?


Nagy: It would be more correct to say that some phenomena cannot be explained by what is currently known about nature. Much that appeared to be magic later proved to have a natural explanation that was not known at the time. Perhaps there are phenomena that will never be explained by what we know about natural law, but that is likely due to our ignorance of some of laws of physics and chemistry.

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Photofortytwo: Your god deceives you. It is there in the bible, he deceived Abraham, he deceived Adam. He is a deceiver.
Stop pedaling your unsubstantiated bull poop.
The sooner we unshackle ourselves from this religious nonsense the better this world will be.
I am a good person, not because I am told to be good, but because I want to be good. Do you need to be told? What does that say about you and your morals?
You religious folk are responsible for so much that is egregious in our society. It is so self serving. "Your right and everybody else is wrong!" There are over 41,000 different types of christianity. That is not including islam judaism. For "Zeus" sake. Pick one already you can't all be right. But you can all be WRONG! After all I only deny one more religion that you do.
Go on, be strong, shake the silly shackle of religion. Breath the air of common sense, it is very sweet. And it leaves your sundays free to take photos.


Bangee5: So we trade our religion for your religion?

Nagy: Not believing in any god is no more a religion than not having a particular college degree is a degree unto itself.

Bangee5: You think that your religion is any better. The only thing your religion offers is Sunday off.

Nagy: That is not all his "religion" offers. It also offers freedom from the burdens of fairy tale punishment/reward narratives, and intrusive interjection of one's personal moral codes dictated by the religion.

Bangee5: You do believe that God exist, how else could God deceive us as you believe.

Nagy: Apparently you have trouble understanding such references, which do not imply his belief in your god, but merely mentions the god you postulate in your own terms. It is like referring to the flat Earth theory as a former "truth," when both the reader and the author understand that it was a truth only in the minds of those who embraced it.

Bangee5: You are just one more person who does not know a personal God. You are the one being deceived - by the world. Being you don't accept the grace of God you don't want others to believe. Do you really think that we would give up what we have for what you have to offer. Jesus said that not a one of us can be plucked from his hands.

Nagy: This is spectacular nonsense. You declare the existence of a Supreme Being out of thin air, and look superciliously at those who do not join you in believing in it. You are a great candidate for the Ministry of Truth.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

You can take apart and analyze what others say but that does not make you right or look any more intelligent than you think you are. Religion is a belief system. You do not have to have a deity to have a religion. Your fault is that you do not understand Christianity or why we believe. How could you? Reading from or about the bible does not give you insight into why we believe. You know your wife better than anyone else because you have a personal relationship with her. I might can tell you what I think about her based only from what I have been told but I could never know her as you do. For the Christian it is a personal one on one relationship with our God.

magicray Loc: Tampa Bay, Florida

Do I believe in the supernatural? No. There has never been a case of supposed supernatural or spiritual phenomenon that has been PROVEN to have occurred. Throughout history the explanation for the then unknown has been god. It's an easy out. Puts our mind to rest. We don't have to think about it anymore. Problem solved.

I have never had an experience that I feel could never be explained by natural means. Ingrained religious dogma can interfere with progressive and creative thought. By the way, I find that you and Pepper are two of the most open minded Christians on this forum.

IMO