Eir

Birds don't have two or three or four lights attached to them, so when I'm taking a long exposure photo anywhere from 2-30 seconds, I get a light trail that's a little more than just a "click or two" from removing! So..............Yeah it can be an issue!

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Lucian,

You said you are a licensed aircraft pilot. You need to know that the FAA requires EVERYONE to have a license to fly a drone, even those sub 250 gram models that don't need to be registered. The requirement for a recreational license became effective June 22, 2021. https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_fliers/knowledge_test_updates/

Will you get a ticket if you don't have the recreational "TRUST" license? I'm not sure the FAA has an enforcement plan. And, I wonder if they have a clue how many sub 250 gram drones have been sold.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Communities may try to do that, but it is not legal. The only agency in the USA that can regulate airspace is the FAA. A property owner can prohibit operations (takeoffs and landings) from their ground, but not flight in federal airspace. A community, city or state can prohibit operations from their grounds, like parks. If you own your lot, you can do the same. Or you could allow operations in your yard.

For example, you could takeoff from your yard, fly over to the nearby park, take pictures and then return for landing. You can NEVER be out of sight with your drown. An unregistered (sub 250 gram) drone is pocket sized tiny. That means the park would need to be very close. My drone gets hard to see when it is 200 feet away!

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

Also keep in mind that the only body to govern airspace is the FAA and that goes over any private community by-laws that they may try to pass. No one can stop you flying over their property as long as that is all that you are doing, regardless of what they may try and enforce as a law. Your community for example, cannot ban anyone flying over private property as long as you are at a reasonable altitude which might be, for example at 150ft or more, regardless of what they may try and tell you or attempt to enforce. Otherwise all aircraft would be banned from overflying your community, if that were enforceable.

As long as you took off from public property and were not within a 5 mile circle of an airport or heliport or hospital heliport, etc. they cannot stop you from flying through the air, because all drones have the same legal right to fly through the air that any other aircraft does. However, a drone is limited to a 400ft max. altitude above the ground it is flying over.

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

Ahh that is different, however, again, another quick long exposure a few seconds later will give you a clear sky again, which is easy to swap out if it was an issue, or just drag the healing brush through the light streak.

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

I was an instructor for a number of years, so do understand the legalities of GA flying and of course, drone flying. With that said, you still do not have to have a license to fly any drone in the normal weight category and that include drone weighing a few pounds, not just grams. If it is 250gms or more, you do need to register it but you do not need a license at all. If under 250grms, you do not need to register it. However, any drone flyer is required to pass the TRUST test and keep a copy to show any questioning authority. That TRUST test is easy and you cannot fail it because it keeps asking you the same questions until you get it right.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

"and were not within a 5 mile circle of an airport or heliport or hospital heliport, etc"

Not exactly! Fifty years ago, I got my first pilot's license. The "airport traffic circle" was 5 miles and your rule of thumb might have worked pretty well then.

We no longer have 5 mile traffic circles. We have Class A, B, C, D, E and G airspace now. The only one where you have complete legal freedom is Class G. Class A is so high it does not matter. But, B, C, D and E all need a little more attention to detail. Then there is a lot of restricted airspace for things like National Parks, disaster areas, NFL stadiums and more. The good news is that there are applications and tools to figure it all out so that you can have a lot of fun with an aerial camera.

The "real world" is that the FAA law and practicality are not matching up. If you keep your drone within eyesight and are polite about flying it, nobody will chase you down with fines or law suits.

My personal choice is to go all in with the TRUST certificate and the Part 107 license. I finished the course yesterday and am taking practice exams. Why? Because it is fun to learn new stuff and it will make what I want to do more "legal".

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Lucian,

I too was an instructor and current until my 70th birthday. I bought a drone under 250g and took the TRUST test. I'm calling the TRUST certificate a license. It probably is not. That would mean that you are right and I am wrong. You do not need a "license" to fly a drone. You need a "certificate".

With 50 years and 5,000 hours logged in fuel burning aircraft, the FAA's Part 107 is, for me, a challenge. It is technical and specific. Little in my aviation experience would allow me to say that because I understand the legalities of GA flying that I understand the legalities of drone flying. The FAA has chosen to create an entire new Part 107. As long as I can remember there has only been Parts 61, 91, 121 and 135. The FAA couldn't stuff drones into any of those and has made a new, equally complex set of regulations.

I completed my Part 107 "ground school" yesterday. I'll do some practice tests and, hopefully, will pass the test. Among many things I learned is that I did not understand the legalities of drone flying. I might even say that I didn't have a clue!

Robg

It's nice to see a couple of experts in this discussion. I have a question for which I have not been able to get an answer.

I live close to an uncontrolled airport but LAANC is not available outside controlled airspace. If it was a controlled airport I would be able to use LAANC to get authorization to fly, typically below 100 feet. What do I do in my case, or can I fly my drone without getting any pre-authorization as long as I stay bellow 100 feet ?

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

It is suggested that as long as you are keeping away from the approach ends of the runways in use, you could visit or call the FBO and tell them what you intend to do and more often than not, you will get the go ahead. They appreciate being informed and asked, that shows you understand the regs and are safety minded. If it is an airport that has no FBO then I would suggest, to be on the safe side, you give your local FAA office a call and talk it through with them.

FAA can often be surprisingly helpful. It's not always their old motto of "The FAA is not happy, until you're not happy". You can't just fly your drone, even at 70ft AGL, legally, if you are within the specified airspace around an airport. Just because you are unable to contact anyone, does not give you the right to just go and fly, of course. Just talk it over with your local FAA office, they'll be happy and you'll be happy.

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

That's very good that you went the part 107 route, however, most drone flyers are not interested in going through all that studying and cost, just to fly for a bit of fun from time to time. The OP asked specific questions and from what he was asking, I believe most of us would be inclined to think that the OP did not want to go through all that you are putting yourself through, just to fly their drone to take a few photos. As for various FAA parts, the 107 has only been around for the past several years, but there are other parts that you don't seem familiar with such as FAR Part 103 which has been around for decades.

Pilots don't need to know every one of them, but should research the ones that are applicable to what they wish to do in the airspace. The TRUST exam only came about a few months ago, so is very new, but very easy and is basically a formality, so that if you screw up, the FAA can bust you and you can't try to use the excuse that you did not know about those rules. Not that such a statement was ever any help if a person were to be busted by the FAA.

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

Of course there is varying airspace and that too has changed over the years. However, I did not want to complicate things even further touting all the rules and regulations of flight pertaining to GA and drones. The five mile rule still applies to drone flying and that is why I stated that, it's not something from the old days. I also did not mention NOTAM etc. because that can also change your free and open airspace from one day to the next on a temporary basis.

The 5 mile rule makes it somewhat clearer to those who don't know all the ins and outs of drone rules from the FAA, if they simply understand that flying near any airport is something they should best not do. Anyone who really wants to know the intricacies of all the rules can easily do a search to learn about them. We just don't need to throw too much into this discussion, when it is really not needed.

The FAA law and practicality may not be matching up, but it is still the law. And as you stated, for the most part, if you are courteous about your flying and show safety mindedness, you probably won't have any issues. With that said, you are still going to run into the busybody who walks over to complain to you about your flying, spouting off laws that don't exist or local regs that are not legal, as long as you know your legal rights to fly your drone. And there is the local police who often don't even know the rules and regs.

Many drone pilots assume that all GA aircraft have to, by law, fly no lower than 500ft, thinking that is why drone flyers have a 400ft cap on AGL. They then get all upset because they were out in the middle of nowhere and a aircraft came through at 300ft AGL and think the aircraft was flying illegally or worse, that the aircraft was in their airspace. No matter what an aircraft might be doing at any altitude, the drone flyer is still the lowest on the totem pole and must avoid the manned aircraft at all cost, whether that aircraft was flying legally or illegally.

Let's just keep things simple with responses to those who might want to get into flying a drone to take some photos, and hope that they will be responsible flyers and not idiots that may cause even more freedom of flight to be taken away from current drone flyers.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Lucian,

I forgot about ultralights even though I was briefly involved with selling the Cessna Skycatcher. I don't think the ultralight Part 103 has anything to do with drones.

The OP does not have to "go through all of that". If anyone buys a drone under 250 grams, no registration is required for the drone itself. The FAA has a precise definition for recreational flying. As long as the intent of a drone flight is about selfish fun and entertainment, nothing other than the easy TRUST certificate is required. It gets really grey after that. If a friend asks you to take a picture of something, you are now doing something for someone else. The FAA's view is that you now need a Part 107 license. In other words, in the eyes of the FAA if you want to do ANYTHING for ANYBODY else, it is no longer selfish pleasure and you need a 107.

Being busted? We are fully in agreement that there is nowhere near the recourses in the FAA to monitor and enforce casual drone flying. Do what you want.

This may be turning into a silly contest about who knows more than the other. I'm out.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

"I live close to an uncontrolled airport but LAANC is not available outside controlled airspace."

Which airport? I can look it up on a "sectional" chart and try to figure out the airspace. It will be a good test of what I think I'm learning in my course.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

" ...you could visit or call the FBO and tell them what you intend to do ..."

FBO is "Fixed Base Operator". It is a business that sells fuel, maintains airplanes, may rent airplanes, may have charter services and may even have flight instruction. They have no control or authority over airspace. The FAA controls the airspace.