Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

I pointed out to you back in 2017 (your complaint topic about over-sharpening here) that if someone is content with their own style, there is no valid reason - in a social sharing site - to attempt criticism.

What would be greatly appreciated by many on UHH (there are lurkers looking to learn but reluctant to post) is if those with exceptional talent and experience such as yourself would create teaching topics. I provided a few examples from the past in this posting.

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Bill_de Loc: US

But what if you are the greatest person to hit a shutter button?

If you want critiques there are various sections here that can be useful. If you post in the Photo Gallery you should specifically ask for a critique.

Once posted let the image stand on its own. It's up to you to decide what information is helpful to you. If someone says something negative that you disagree with, just say thank you. If somebody points out a flaw, just say thank you. If some says, I love it, just say thank you.

You want to keep things focused on the image, not the conditions, the equipment, or the fact that you have a cold. If you just want a discussion about your photo, that's what you should ask for.

IMHO

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gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast

Critique is a funny thing. It depends so much on the judgement of the viewer and their knowledge of photography. Our photo club is mostly pros and advanced photographers and when you’d get a gasp of "wow" on review night you knew you had a good one. But rarely would there be a photo that was all positive with no negative. And some photos were difficult to find anything good about. Lots of silence. Silence in a critique is worthless.

Compassionate nurse

I always love and respect your kind,yet sensible/informative responses. Your sincere humbleness is appreciated. Thanks.

catchlight.. Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway

Excellent idea and great advise, I will have to look into that.

About the topic... all criticism can have value in my oppinion.

the HOG photo gallery is what I consider candy coated with praise. It is impossible to communicate any kind of positive criticism through the clutter of mutual self absorption. You quickly learn to keep your mouth shut or just not look in the gallery. Adoration overshadows any chance of adding a professional perspective. Great photos by accomplished artists obviously are treated different and should be used by others as inspiration.

I personally insist on criticism when communicating with my publishers to keep ahead of the game, and the feed back is necessary. Many times asking for criticism can increase your income or open new doors.

I personally believe we are all eternal amateurs, and one should never tire of learning, or absorbing, or listening. Criticism especially when mixed with encouragement should be embraced... but then again people are people... and human nature is just that.

srt101fan

Thanks, Linda. You're right, the description of the Photo Gallery section has the guidelines for photo posting in the "Main" section I was trying to remember. I wonder why Admin didn't also include them in the description of the "Main" section....

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

What is the point in criticizing Photo Gallery? The casual hobbyists, those who find joy in their photography and are not motivated to "get better" (per someone else's idea of good, better, best) have a right to participate in a section where they can be inspired or share their enthusiasm and support of others in a friendly setting. I was extremely active there for my first two years of UHH membership, both in posting photos and enjoying others. I've made many friends with whom I still share messages or images or stories.

I guess I can understand the dismay of some talented new users who come here expecting everyone to take notice and appreciate them. I have dabbled on four other forums and I always spent a lot of time reading other topics prior to posting my own comments or photos - in order to get a sense of how people conducted themselves, as well as to learn if and how I might fit in. I hope you do follow up on creating teaching topics like Sharpshooter did back in 2015 and 2016, and For Your Consideration with its ambitious four-part series on light in 2018. It takes a lot more effort to attempt positive actions than to complain

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

This is great advice, but hard to put into practice the first few times you put yourself out there - at least it was for me

Looking at someone's previous comments and photos can help. Specifically, are they usually courteous and take time to explain their feedback, and do their photos reflect the style and subjects you wish to pursue.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Critiques, if presented properly, explicitly, without prejudice and constructively are one of the most important and effective aspects of teaching and learning photography and improving one's quality of work. There are, however, many cavities that must be observed and unfortunately enough, many of these are not observed and practiced on forums and social media. As a result of this lack of methodology and form, many online critiques are ineffective, counterproductive and discouraging.

There are responsibilities that should be considered both by the submitter and the critic. The first step in the process may seem too basic but oftentimes the obvious escapes us, that is, for the submitter to seek out critics that know what they are talking about and looking at, whose work and opinions they respect, and is capable of offering sound advice. This takes work, research, and resourcefulness on your part but it pays off in the long run.

Sometimes, when I read requests for critiques I begin to believe that some photographers are masochists. They oftentimes preface there request explaining that they have "thick skins" and request that their images should be "ripped apart" rather than asking a specific question or simply asking for a professional or professional-like opinion. When you do that, especially on open forums or social media, you are going to attract the photography "sadists" that will only be too pleased to accommodate you "ripping apart" requirement and will deliver a nasty, and usually inane review of your images, sometimes accompanied by personal attacks! You may also find well-meaning responses that are patiently technically and aesthetically incorrect. You may fie the odd helpful and decent constructive critique. This, of course, creates more confusion in that you have to try to discern t which critiques are valid and which ones are not and you are likely to go for the kindest ones as opposed to the technically correct ones that may seem too harsh.

The is an old expression that says that "if you can't take a punch, you shouldn't enter the ring"! So...pleas remember that even the most sincere and kindest critique may contain negative information which you must learn to take in stride and use to your advantage.

The critic has important responsibilities as well. When I wrote "without prejudice" I meant that as a critic, you should be able to technically and aesthetically analyze an image without injecting your personal taste in subject matter or style. You may not like to display a photograh of an elephant in your living room but you should be able to adjudicate on such an image on its technical and aesthetical merits. You may not like to do baby pictures, birds, street photograhy, abstracts, special effects, or landscapes but you can still be able to analyze them and if you can not fairly judge any particular subject or style, or if it not within your area of expertise, you should graciously decline the request.

Rules and tools: Many photographers still insist that there are no "rules" that should be applied to art and tend to disparage such rules and guidelines that are utilized by professional photographers associations and some photo/camera clubs criteria for scoring and critique images. Granted, it is difficult to "judge" creativity, artistry and the maker's philosophical messages, however, there needs to be some standardization, guidelines, and certain definable criteria in that, especially online, we are not individually mentoring each submitter. We need to be able to assess each image thoroughly and reasonably quickly and supply the submitter with useful information, remedial action for what we consider elements that require improvement, and most importantly encouragement to improve or keeping up the good work. A critique needn't be NEGATIVE, in part or entirely. Good points and praise for an outstanding image is certainly in order. A harsh, mean spirited, critique is unnecessary and discouraging and a dishonestly positive critique on a mediocre or poorly crafted image is just as much as a disservice to the submitter. A badly crafted image of a cute child, a majestic animal or an impressive sunset does not make for a superior photograh.

Some of the criteria to consider is as follows: Viewer impact and storytelling content, composition, lighting or use of existing light, technical excellence in exposure, range, key, rendition of detail, sharp and selective focus, perspective, color harmony, and balance, craftsmanship, workmanship, and presentation in finishing, and more. Each headings many sub-heading which can be analyzed if time, space and formation accommodate these extensions.

There is no doubt that participating in seeking and offering critiques online, on this forum, can be beneficial to all concerned bit again there are caveats. You have to understand that this is not a personal consulting organization or school, service by bonafide teachers and experts. There is the excellent, the good, the bad and the ugly. The submitter needs to be resourceful, discerning, proactive. consistent and persistent. My advice is not to become too preoccupied with forum rules as to where to post images- you will find out soon enough if you don't waste your time with this obsessing and just hit your keyboard and mouse and search out all the specialized sections, start posting images and find your niche. If you are up for it, why not try your hand at offer critiques, at lease, according to the criteria I have outlined as a start. You too may find your niche.

I have been teaching and training photographers for a long time- mostly for my own studio business and some during the period where I was earning my credentials and was required to offer classes and seminars. Encouragement is one of the best teaching tools. I avoid the terms like "photography boot camp" and "crash course"! I experienced real "boot camp" and it has its purpose but it involves breaking down and building up the potential solder's ego and confidence in a certain way in short order. We ain't going off to war, YET, around here, although there are times when you might think so! Learning photography is a process that comes in increments and layers- it takes time and patience. A crash course will result in a CRASH!

Critique with care, honesty and kindness. It works but y'all have to put in the work!

gessman Loc: Colorado

That's a really nice compliment and I'd suspect it's intended for Linda of Washin... er, uh, Maine, and deservedly so but all doubt of your intended recipient would be removed if you would click on the "Quote Reply" button so part of her post is included to identify to whom you are replying. People who are humble will rarely ask about a compliment even if all is evident, "are you talking about me," while people with almost no humility, and all that goes along with that, will invariably assume you are talking about them when nothing could be farther from the truth. "Aim." Use "Quote Reply." And thanks for speaking out and giving credit where credit is due.

catchlight.. Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway

Thanks for your perspective, but the misuse of the word "criticism" as a word may be the best way to understand what you are saying.



You said it perfectly and I quote from your words:

"The casual hobbyists, those who find joy in their photography and are not motivated to "get better" (per someone else's idea of good, better, best) have a right to participate in a section where they can be inspired or share their enthusiasm and support of others in a friendly setting."

As you say, it is expected to endlessly pat each other on the back.

Bob Locher Loc: Southwest Oregon

I think you pose a difficult question. Unless you are shooting professionally, in which case you have to please the client, you should be shooting to please yourself. Criticism from others can be helpful, but remember they are always trying to steer you towards their idea of what is good.
Consider this approach - look at other people's work, and decide which efforts you would be proud to put your name on. Do not attempt to copy them, but instead figure out for yourself what the strengths of these pictures are, and work to develop those strengths in your own work.
I am presuming you have the technical skills needed - get sharply focused, well exposed pictures etc. If there is any question on that, tackle those problems first.
Bottom line - shoot to please yourself! Be proud of you best efforts. I believe these are the important things.

Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb

One way maybe try to sell them. If some one will spend money for one it must be good.

catchlight.. Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway

You bring up an important facts of life.

... it is interesting is how sensitive a photo- taker can be, and how you are perceived when you communicate with them, especially when it come to personality types and your teaching techniques...

catchlight.. Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway

Best reply yet!

Output or something that could be printed or published, absolutely!