Beginner telescope for astrophotography
Feb 25, 2021 17:19:26 #
Guys, I’m looking for a scope for a beginner new to astrophotography. At this point, I think I’d be mostly interested in deep sky photography, but not sure. My budget is $1500-$2000. Portability is important since I live in the city in a neighborhood that is heavily light polluted (half my neighbors want to light their trees and houses now that LED lighting is inexpensive) and I would want some sort of computer control/guidance. My camera initially would be either a Canon 5D4 or a Fuji X-t2. I’ve been looking at both Celestron 8” Schmidt Cassegrain and Newtonian scopes, but I’d like to understand the advantages/disadvantages of both designs and I am especially interested in the various types of mounts such as computerized German vs Alt-Az. Can you please help me sort it out and provide some suggestions for a beginner? Thanks in advance for the help
Feb 25, 2021 17:54:46 #
Trx,
I have a Celestron Nexstar 8 SE, in very good condition which I am going to put on the market, but did not want to do so just yet, if you want more info please PM me and I can give all the details and all what is included... I am just getting too old to truck around any more...
Larry
I have a Celestron Nexstar 8 SE, in very good condition which I am going to put on the market, but did not want to do so just yet, if you want more info please PM me and I can give all the details and all what is included... I am just getting too old to truck around any more...
Larry
Feb 25, 2021 17:57:48 #
Paul Diamond
Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
Hi, I have a Celestron 8" and it's about as heavy as you'd want to transport to a "dark sky" area you see on the online maps. It will travel as mount/tripod and C8 plus accessories. You said 'deep sky', so you will need time in your dark sky location with enough battery power for the scope. I bought the auxiliary power supply for this purpose. And you'll want Celestron's Star Sense or similar tracking for your multiple time exposures through different narrow band filters. This will allow you to set up your rig, sight enough stars to calibrate the StarSense and then you can be ready to go. The C8 mount should be able to accept a dovetail bar for rings to hold your DSLR and lens for photos outside of the scope or handle the weight of your camera body for eyepiece prime focus or eyepiece projection.
Lots of UHH'ers more experienced than me in the latest technologies can give advice here. You can do a lot within your budget - especially if you consider used equipment in GWO. I bought mine used.
Lots of UHH'ers more experienced than me in the latest technologies can give advice here. You can do a lot within your budget - especially if you consider used equipment in GWO. I bought mine used.
Feb 25, 2021 19:22:15 #
Hi TriX!
Well, now is a tough time to be breaking in to AP. The market is really dried up for equipment.
What I did (2014) was start by deciding IF I wanted to do this, Then deciding WHAT I wanted to do.
Which is almost the same as what I'm reading from you.
DSO, Nebula specific for me.
The long haul came when learning how to do it and the best equipment to try and start with.
I made the mistake of coming in with a budget mind. It yielded me a great deal of pain and work to fix it. I do hope your entry is a lot smoother than mine.
Now, around 6 years later, I feel I'm managing better images in my way of doing them.
What I came to the conclusion of was the telescope needs to be a camera lens. So I went with an ED80T CF version with Orion. I'm still using it today.
My first Astro Camera was awful. went through 3 the first year, and never got a good one. A Great Friend watched me struggle and one day offered to loan me a camera.
After instant success with it I wanted to buy it and did. I'm still using it today.
Now, it is said, and from experience now I agree, the mount is the most important part in an Astrophotography rig. My first was a budget mount. But it was problematic.
It finally gave up the ghost in November 2019, and got replaced in February 2020. My new mount completely changed everything about my efforts.
I've strived to improve as I can.
So you said, "Beginner Telescope" but do you mean you need a whole ensemble to start AP?
Well, now is a tough time to be breaking in to AP. The market is really dried up for equipment.
What I did (2014) was start by deciding IF I wanted to do this, Then deciding WHAT I wanted to do.
Which is almost the same as what I'm reading from you.
DSO, Nebula specific for me.
The long haul came when learning how to do it and the best equipment to try and start with.
I made the mistake of coming in with a budget mind. It yielded me a great deal of pain and work to fix it. I do hope your entry is a lot smoother than mine.
Now, around 6 years later, I feel I'm managing better images in my way of doing them.
What I came to the conclusion of was the telescope needs to be a camera lens. So I went with an ED80T CF version with Orion. I'm still using it today.
My first Astro Camera was awful. went through 3 the first year, and never got a good one. A Great Friend watched me struggle and one day offered to loan me a camera.
After instant success with it I wanted to buy it and did. I'm still using it today.
Now, it is said, and from experience now I agree, the mount is the most important part in an Astrophotography rig. My first was a budget mount. But it was problematic.
It finally gave up the ghost in November 2019, and got replaced in February 2020. My new mount completely changed everything about my efforts.
I've strived to improve as I can.
So you said, "Beginner Telescope" but do you mean you need a whole ensemble to start AP?
Feb 26, 2021 09:42:03 #
SonnyE is right about the mount. If you have a good mount, you can start with your cameras and lenses and get proficient with them. Then you can step up to a decent OTA (optical tube assembly) later and then you can do like the rest of us and figure spending more money and sleepless nights for the rest of your life...but it's worth it, honest.
Feb 26, 2021 13:16:08 #
TriX wrote:
Guys, I’m looking for a scope for a beginner new t... (show quote)
If you're new to astrophotography, I recommend NOT starting with a C8!
I'd start with a good Equatorial Mount (EQ mount), something like the Celestron AVX mount. I would NOT recommend an Alt-Az mount if you're going to do astrophotography BUT easy to setup for visual astronomy.
I'd then get used to using the mount, shooting astrophotography subs, postprocessing, etc. using your camera and regular camera lenses.
After the above, if you're still keen on astrophotography, I'd recommend a good 400-600mm refractor. My favorite of the several I've had is the Astro-Tech AT65EDQ 65mm f/6.5 (422mm). The AT65EDQ has a built-in flattened and will illuminate a full frame sensor. I also like my William Optics Megrez 90 f/6.9 (621mm) scope; a bit longer, heavier and it requires a flattener to illuminate a full frame sensor.
After the above, consider something like the C8 SCT (2000mm, f/10). I've had a Celestron 8" EdgeHD and like it BUT it is hard to control for good astrophotography without an excellent polar alignment, long'ish exposures and good guiding (which is a whole nuther subject).
Just my thoughts on the money pit of astrophotography...
bwa
Misty Valley Ranch Observatory - Celestron 8 EdgeHD, Guide Scope, StarSense, CGEM-DX mount
(Download)
AVX Mount, AT65EDQ, Sony A7S, StarSense, Monitor, Wired Remote Timer, Unguided
(Download)
Feb 26, 2021 14:18:19 #
tony85629
Loc: Sahuarita, Az
I would agree with bwana.
In order of priority:
1- the best mount you can afford
2- 3-4 inch apo refractor
3-cmos one shot color camera
Join a astronomy club and see what the members have before you buy. Viewing AND imaging from a light polluted site will be difficult and disappointing. Traveling to and setup at remote locations brings with it unique requirements.
Taking advantage of your fellow astronomy club member’s experience can save you a lot of money and hearbreaks.
In the end this is a difficult but very rewarding hobby.
Hope this helps,
Tony
In order of priority:
1- the best mount you can afford
2- 3-4 inch apo refractor
3-cmos one shot color camera
Join a astronomy club and see what the members have before you buy. Viewing AND imaging from a light polluted site will be difficult and disappointing. Traveling to and setup at remote locations brings with it unique requirements.
Taking advantage of your fellow astronomy club member’s experience can save you a lot of money and hearbreaks.
In the end this is a difficult but very rewarding hobby.
Hope this helps,
Tony
Feb 26, 2021 15:59:36 #
DonVA
Loc: British Columbia and New Mexico
The mount, the mount, the mount. You can have the finest scope in the world and it will be useless for AP unless it is on a good mount. A German Equatorial mount (GEM) is probably your best bet. The best you can afford. A GEM turns on one axis, carefully aligned to match the axis of the earth, and will follow stars without field rotation so you can make the long exposures needed for deep sky. Alt Az mounts on the other hand are set up level and follow the stars by rotating on their vertical axis (azimuth) and by tilting the scope on a second axis (altitude). This results in field rotation which limits the length of exposures. The Meade and Celestron Schmitt Cassegrain telescopes (SCTs) all have integrated Alt Az mounts.
In your shoes I would spend my entire budget on a good used GEM. Astro Physics and Paramount are the standouts although there are a variety that are less costly. You can mount the camera equipment you have on the mount and start shooting. After that, as the hook goes in deeper, you will start shopping for a telescope but if you buy the right mount now then you will be able to do that without regret.
I warn you though, the learning curve is steep and the prices are steeper, but the rewards are immense.
Lots of good advice above, especially about joining a club. They will host star parties where you will see dozens of rigs and get all the advice you can handle. Good luck with it.
In your shoes I would spend my entire budget on a good used GEM. Astro Physics and Paramount are the standouts although there are a variety that are less costly. You can mount the camera equipment you have on the mount and start shooting. After that, as the hook goes in deeper, you will start shopping for a telescope but if you buy the right mount now then you will be able to do that without regret.
I warn you though, the learning curve is steep and the prices are steeper, but the rewards are immense.
Lots of good advice above, especially about joining a club. They will host star parties where you will see dozens of rigs and get all the advice you can handle. Good luck with it.
Feb 26, 2021 17:00:18 #
I concur with all the advice given by these people. I started out with a POS Orion GEM that could not track even with my 50 mm Canon 6d. However, I learned my lesson and bought the best mount I could afford. I got a CEM 40 from Ioptron and have not looked back since. Remember if you wish to progress in this hobby, upgrading your OTA has limits with your mount so buy a mount that can handle the load. My mount can handle 40 pounds, but I would never put that much on it. I limit it to no more than 30 pounds and that can be running to its limit. Plan ahead and get the best mount for the money. BYW, I travel out to the desert away from Las Vegas so I can shoot in a Bortle 4 area. Going another hour will net me Bortle 2 skies. Summer is when I go there; not winter. Too cold and too much wind. RFB
Feb 26, 2021 18:41:26 #
Ballard
Loc: Grass Valley, California
Hi TriX
Warning this can be addictive and will end up costing more and more money as you really get into it.
For deep sky photography you will want a good mount (if you can afford it, a Losmandy or astrophysics mounts are very good). I would also go with an equatorial mount, Alt-Az mounts are more stable for a given size and weight, however you will need to take shot exposures to due to field rotation (unless you want to spend a lot on a rotator to compensate for the field rotation). Getting the best mount you can afford is more critical than the telescope for deep sky photography. In fact great shots can be taken with just a high quality telephoto lens on a good equatorial mount using a DSLR. The other thing to consider is guiding, with a decent polar aligned equatorial mount you can get away without guiding for a minute or so with a normal 200mm camera lens, however for longer focal lengths you need either a small guide scope and guiding camera or an off axis guider attached to the telescope with a guiding camera. With long focus camera lens I use a guide scope since there is no room to use an off axis guider between the camera lens and camera. For shots through a telescope I now prefer the off axis guider, since you avoid issues with any flexure between the guide scope and main telescope. Even if you get a telescope I would start with using a camera and camera lens on an equatorial mount to get a feel for taking multiple images and how to stack and process them. For deep sky you will need to learn about the types of frames to that are used for imaging. In order of importance are light frames (images of the object), dark frames to remove sensor noise (images taken for the same length, ISO settings and temperature as the light frames but with all light blocked), Flat Frames to compensate for vignette and dust in the system and bias frames to help remove read noise). Most camera lens have a smaller F ratio available than telescopes and therefore require shorter exposures and have a shorter focal length that is more forgiving on guiding. The Schmidt Cassegrains are great scopes for planetary imaging are very portable but also have longer equivalent focal lengths than a Newtonian telescope of the same aperture and therefore requiring better guiding and longer exposures for deep sky. Many deep sky objects are fairly large and a good refractor (or even camera lens) are a better choice for some deep sky photography. Most Planetary nebula are pretty small as are many galaxies and a longer focal length is useful for these object. I end up using camera lenses, A Schmidt Cassegrain and an APO refractor depending on the subject (Like I said above it can be addictive). Note: it is a continuous learning process to get decent astro images. If you have any other question feel free to ask. The next big thing for me will be a cooled monochrome Astro camera for deep sky rather than the DSLR which is blind to the hydrogen alpha lines that many deep sky objects contain.
Below are some shots I've taken with a Losmandy mount using guide scope, 500mm camera lens and Canon 5D Mark IV DSLR.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-616579-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-620263-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-656332-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-629210-1.html
Here are a few examples using a Astrophysics mount with a 4000mm Schmidt Cassegrain telescope with an off axis guider and a same DSLR.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-652657-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-648527-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-651961-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-652947-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-648536-1.html
Warning this can be addictive and will end up costing more and more money as you really get into it.
For deep sky photography you will want a good mount (if you can afford it, a Losmandy or astrophysics mounts are very good). I would also go with an equatorial mount, Alt-Az mounts are more stable for a given size and weight, however you will need to take shot exposures to due to field rotation (unless you want to spend a lot on a rotator to compensate for the field rotation). Getting the best mount you can afford is more critical than the telescope for deep sky photography. In fact great shots can be taken with just a high quality telephoto lens on a good equatorial mount using a DSLR. The other thing to consider is guiding, with a decent polar aligned equatorial mount you can get away without guiding for a minute or so with a normal 200mm camera lens, however for longer focal lengths you need either a small guide scope and guiding camera or an off axis guider attached to the telescope with a guiding camera. With long focus camera lens I use a guide scope since there is no room to use an off axis guider between the camera lens and camera. For shots through a telescope I now prefer the off axis guider, since you avoid issues with any flexure between the guide scope and main telescope. Even if you get a telescope I would start with using a camera and camera lens on an equatorial mount to get a feel for taking multiple images and how to stack and process them. For deep sky you will need to learn about the types of frames to that are used for imaging. In order of importance are light frames (images of the object), dark frames to remove sensor noise (images taken for the same length, ISO settings and temperature as the light frames but with all light blocked), Flat Frames to compensate for vignette and dust in the system and bias frames to help remove read noise). Most camera lens have a smaller F ratio available than telescopes and therefore require shorter exposures and have a shorter focal length that is more forgiving on guiding. The Schmidt Cassegrains are great scopes for planetary imaging are very portable but also have longer equivalent focal lengths than a Newtonian telescope of the same aperture and therefore requiring better guiding and longer exposures for deep sky. Many deep sky objects are fairly large and a good refractor (or even camera lens) are a better choice for some deep sky photography. Most Planetary nebula are pretty small as are many galaxies and a longer focal length is useful for these object. I end up using camera lenses, A Schmidt Cassegrain and an APO refractor depending on the subject (Like I said above it can be addictive). Note: it is a continuous learning process to get decent astro images. If you have any other question feel free to ask. The next big thing for me will be a cooled monochrome Astro camera for deep sky rather than the DSLR which is blind to the hydrogen alpha lines that many deep sky objects contain.
Below are some shots I've taken with a Losmandy mount using guide scope, 500mm camera lens and Canon 5D Mark IV DSLR.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-616579-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-620263-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-656332-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-629210-1.html
Here are a few examples using a Astrophysics mount with a 4000mm Schmidt Cassegrain telescope with an off axis guider and a same DSLR.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-652657-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-648527-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-651961-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-652947-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-648536-1.html
Feb 28, 2021 12:05:50 #
Thank you everyone for the excellent advice - I have Sooooooo much to learn. sounds as if I need to first consider a good German equatorial Mount and go from there. Sounds as if this will be a long and expensive challenge!
Stay well,
Chris
Stay well,
Chris
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