ObamaCare Works (Page 3): We do have one indication about whether or not people will like ObamaCare, and that is the plan in effect now in Massachusetts, which was designed by Romney.

Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA

We do have one indication about whether or not people will like ObamaCare, and that is the plan in effect now in Massachusetts, which was designed by Romney. (Remember him ?)

ObamaCare was modeled after Romney's plan. I read somewhere -- must go find the attribution -- that something like 95 - 97% of the people who have RomneyCare like it.

I'll Google the subject and see what I can find. But one thing is certain -- RomneyCare has not been the failure you insist ObamaCare will be, even though ObamaCare is modeled after RomneyCare.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

Richard94611 wrote:

We do have one indication about whether or not pe... (show quote)

While your at it compare the size of the two bills.

Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA

Gitzo, I never took my "goofy avatar" down. Don't know what you have been looking at, but my "goofy avatar" has been up since I first posted it, and isn't likely to come down because it allows contentious fools like yourself to spot my posts easily (and avoid them if they wish, though I think you are drawn to my posts and answering them the way a moth is drawn to flames).

Krugman seems like a credible source to me. What is your evidence that he isn't a credible source ? Just your feelings about his political stance, I bet.

Tell us more about Al Gore predicting another ice age.

People in Massachusetts generally like RomneyCare very much. ObamaCare is modeled after RomneyCare. Can you figure out what that logically imp;lies ?

Gitzo UH wrote:

To which Gitzo said; br br First of all, Richard,... (show quote)

Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA

I now I understand you. We are supposed to judge whether a bill is good or not by how many pages it requires when it is printed. Duhhhhh.

Pepper wrote:

While your at it compare the size of the two bills.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

Richard94611 wrote:

I now I understand you. We are supposed to judge whether a bill is good or not by how many pages it requires when it is printed. Duhhhhh.

My point was and is that the Mass. bill is not nearly as complicated nor as cumbersome. You are supporting and advocating for a piece of legislation that I seriously doubt you've read let alone understand. You are only passing on what your mentors are promoting. I'm saying in essence that you have only part of the story and yet you're trying to sell the whole package. Not much different than the approach most politicians use.

Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA

What you have stated abouit me is true -- about BOTH ME AND YOU.

Pepper wrote:

My point was and is that the Mass. bill is not nearly as complicated nor as cumbersome. You are supporting and advocating for a piece of legislation that I seriously doubt you've read let alone understand. You are only passing on what your mentors are promoting. I'm saying in essence that you have only part of the story and yet you're trying to sell the whole package. Not much different than the approach most politicians use.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

Richard94611 wrote:

What you have stated abouit me is true -- about BOTH ME AND YOU.

Yep :thumbup:

Personally I think its totally irresponsible for a politician to vote for any piece of legislation that they dont thoroughly understand. I also think its irresponsible for you to advocate a position on a bill that you dont understand completely. If I were making the rules every piece of legislation would have to be read in its entirety with the authors present at its reading to clarify any part of the bill that members question before it would qualify for a vote.

Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA

Pepper, you can accuse me of irresponsibility all you want, but neither you nor I have access to bills in their entirely. Are you telling me that you don't favor ANY LEGISLATION outlined in legislation you have not read in its entirety ?

Furthermore, Pepper, I don;t know what you do with your time, but I have a lot of other things to do, so I cannot spend my days reading pending legislation. I help elect people to do that and then make judgements about various proposed bills. Don't blame me if no one in Congress does his or her job properly. You're as much to blame (assuming you vote as well as criticize) as I am, which is damn little.

Pepper wrote:

Yep :thumbup:

Personally I think its totally irresponsible for a politician to vote for any piece of legislation that they dont thoroughly understand. I also think its irresponsible for you to advocate a position on a bill that you dont understand completely. If I were making the rules every piece of legislation would have to be read in its entirety with the authors present at its reading to clarify any part of the bill that members question before it would qualify for a vote.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

How are we going to feel if this health care bill turns out to be one more disappointment with a huge price tag that we must pass along to our children? Of course I dont have time to read the legislation as they are generally hundreds of pages in length and thats exactly why I support individual bills for individual issues. Even our elected representatives cant find time to wade through a three thousand page document and then try and figure out the impact it will have on the American people. Im not really talking about a Democrat or Republican issue Im concerned and frustrated with the process. The process has far more of an impact on American lives than do personalities. Look at the hog, you get Obama did this, Bush did that and it means very little in comparison to the process. If we had a simplified process we the people at least would have a chance to stay informed. What we have now is nobody knowing anything and just whistling their parties tune.

heyrob Loc: Western Washington

Richard94611 wrote:

We do have one indication about whether or not pe... (show quote)

If indeed your contention is true, the difference is that "RomenyCare" is a state plan, which is completely within a states right to implement, since welfare programs are not listed in Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution, they fall under the auspices of the tenth amendment.

So since the majority of Americans still want the plan repealed, all your arguments just show you to be another liberal with a "it's my way or the highway" attitude.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Richard94611 wrote:

Pepper, you can accuse me of irresponsibility all ... (show quote)

Actually bills are posted in their entirety to both the House and Senate websites, you can search and find them. The biggest problem is that the bills have become so large and cumbersome that if you tried to keep up with congress you would have little time for much else. But, I agree with Pepper that our elected officials should know the legislation which they are voting on, but that is not how DC works and I am not so sure that it ever worked that way as it is specifically the job of the party whip to get the membership inline and voting in accord with the leaderships wishes. There is much at stake for the individual members in addition to the pork that is typically allowed into bills, but committee appointments, chairmanships, the ability to bribe the right people...etc.

Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA

Interesting -- my avatar seems to have vanished. Don't know why, but I will try to repost it.

In some situations, bills are not posted in their entirety until the last minute, and no one doing anything else can know every detail of what is in them, including last-minute pork inserted just minutes before the vote. That is why Nancy Pelosi uttered that famous quote that we would have to "wait and see what was in the bill."

Blurryeyed wrote:

Actually bills are posted in their entirety to bot... (show quote)

BillHill Loc: Saint Augustine, Fl

Many years ago I knew a gentleman that ordered the Congressional Record every year. It was sent at no charge to the individual which means we the tax payers paid for it. He had no interest in reading the thing but sold it to the scrap (now recycler) dealer and pocked the money.

Of course bill did not seem to be a voluminous then.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

Blurryeyed wrote:

Actually bills are posted in their entirety to bot... (show quote)

Process

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

BillHill wrote:

Many years ago I knew a gentleman that ordered the Congressional Record every year. It was sent at no charge to the individual which means we the tax payers paid for it. He had no interest in reading the thing but sold it to the scrap (now recycler) dealer and pocked the money.

Of course bill did not seem to be a voluminous then.

Once again it's the process