Victory Loc: Vancouver. WA

Sorry No Adobe alternatives!

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

For a snapshooter like you the post processing demands aren’t that great.

Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio

I can second this motion for Affinity Photo. I use it and Nikons NxStudio and their two older programs just because I like the older menus compared to the new one. Probably just me and used to it. Affinity Photo is my true Editor when I need something more complicated than simple adjustments

Brian in Whitby Loc: Whitby, Ontario, Canada

You might try Dark Table as a Raw processor and Gimp instead of Photoshop.
Both are open source so you stand to lose only time by trying them.

Corel also has Aftershot Pro 3 and PaintShop Pro. Both have a trial period.

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

https://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Camera-Digital-Photographers-Only-dp-0470224576/dp/0470224576/ref=dp_ob_title_bk First book I bought 13 or 14 years ago after learning about Adobe camera raw the first week I owned a digital camera a Nikon D300 when they first came out read it cover to cover .The newest I may buy Now just to find out new things like neural editors. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KDGS266/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Is there some point to the fact that you know how to read?

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

I thought this Group was about sharing and learning to help fellow photographers and beginning future photographers . I am only sharing what helped Me understand how to use photoshop . Perhaps there are others that don't understand what a Photoshop document is for and can still be further edited and remains a raw file in edit state . How it is Non destructive to the original file this book explains this .Why do you keep badgering Me ? you don't want to listen to others anyways I was only correcting a statement about that editing a raw file as destructive as it clearly is not as long as you properly "save as" and give it a new name and not save which overwrites the file . These are fine books for learning a raw workflow they may help others , this was not aimed at you although you seem to think it is .The 2nd book I have not read but I am interested in Neural filters that seem to be part of version 22.4.3 of Photoshop that I just updated to .Have a pleasant experience in your photography travels .

Markag

Thanks. I was just looking for help with software other than Adobe .

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

I am sorry this went in a different direction . i do hope you find find an alternative you are looking for . There have been some fine suggestions from others . I did get On 1 raw editor but being so deep into photoshop it seems to have a steep learning curve but does come with a lot of features and tons of free tutorials and has a group following to ask questions from fellow users it might be worth looking into .

profbowman Loc: Harrisonburg, VA, USA

"nikonbrain," if I understood you correctly in an earlier post, I agree that one can edit any image file non-destructively by just saving a copy and working with of it rather than the original file. And in the end, one often has to convert the RAW file into something else to sell it or transfer it. RAW is so dependent on the make and model of the camera from which it came. My book publishers have always wanted jpeg files.

As to software, even though I have used some very sophisticated software in my molecular biophysics research and mathematical research on fractals and evaluating pseudorandom number generators, all I need from my photo software is a way to reduce a size. do some cropping, and clean up some of the electronic noise from the sensor under low light situations.Changing backgrounds in postproduction and using AI to make up details that are not known is not the kind of photography that I do or want to do. --Richard

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

It doesn't even have to be copy but change the existing file number with a 2 or a letter any change at all but when you x out of the image and asks you to save you need to say no . I know some businesses require JPEGS only and yes photoshop would be overkill . I read a piece By Joel Sartore the Author and Photographer of the ARK a book on extinct or the last of their kind animals. He also was a Photographer For The National Geographic and did the photos of the Macaws on the cover . He said in the film days he had to supply Kodachrome slides only and they kept them no dups . I suspect for the fact that he had no control over color after they were taken as Kodak had to do the processing .I quess the Jpegs you supply are required because they need no spedial software to send or use .

Markag

I installed Capture One, On1 and Affinity. I copied an NEF file and processed the photo in each of the applications.
Affinity crashed repeatedly until I shut down the use of the graphics card.
Capture One seemed best in the details -- veins running through a leaf were clearly visible.
PS ACR results didn't show near the detail of Capture.
On1 was noisy.

Retested PS and Capture with a closeup of a humming bird. Again detail was best with Capture but anything above 100 % there appeared a "halo" around the edge of the bird. PS, not as detailed but no halo.

Will test again with PS and Affinity but so far Adobe is the choice.

And again, I'd like to replace Adobe products but not sure, if it takes one app for processing, another for noise, another for focus stacking, etc.

If anyone cares, I can provide a screen shot of my temp folder filled with Adobe temps whether I use their products or not. I have a relatively small C drive and many users notice theirs filling up quickly with temp files. I moved all the browser temps/caches to another drive. I install all apps away from the C drive if given the choice. I had moved the Adobe temp files to an alternate drive but Adobe didn't like it. For one, the neural filters wouldn't even download if the temp folder wasn't on C ... on and on....As far as experience goes, I've used Adobe products in both newspaper production and for personal photography for over 30 years. Just tired of the newer versions.

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

You know you can run older versions . You can find an older version by clicking on the 3 dots next to the download symbol one choice will say older versions if the older version is still too new call Adobe .com support you will probably get someone overseas be patient tell them your problem and specifications of your system and a recommendation of version you should use . Then ask them to send you a link to it and they will .I just did it I am running the newest version My canon printer setup menus don't show up in the drop down menu no matter what Canon had me do even with them showing up in the plugin folder in my c/program file /adobe/photoshop/plugins on the c drive . I requested an older version to print from they allowed 2 version the Newest and the last one from 2020 . Until Canons drivers catch up to Photoshops changes i will work from one version and print from another . They are very accommodating .

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

It is and I've tried to help you understand.

This is completely false. A Photoshop document does not remain a raw file.

I'm trying to help you understand. I've already explained that the term non-destructive as I'm using it does not refer to preserving the original file or the original data. Non-destructive can also refer to the editing workflow and that's what I'm talking about.

I'm listening to you and noting how wrong you are.

And I've explained to you more than once now that I'm not using that meaning of the term non-destructive.

Maybe an example will help you understand. NOTE: RAW WORKFLOW I've acknowledge that PS is a 100% non-destructive editor for RGB image files. I have never been talking about that. I'm talking about a non-destructive raw workflow.

Here's a link to a raw file that you can download and if you like follow along: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4n55pfpek1fwaw3/_MG_0083.CR2?dl=0

Using PS you first have to open the raw file in ACR. There you have editing work to do. You have to set WB. You have to select an input profile. You should tone adjust the image. Maybe straighten the image. First image below is that photo basically adjusted in ACR. Look at the photo and you'll see a tree branch on the right side -- it has to go. You consider ACR and it's ability and decide that to remove the tree branch you need PS. So you pass a smart object from ACR to PS for further editing. NOTE: [PS in this regard is better than all other options since by passing a Smart Object you will retain access to the original ACR edits applied to the image].

In PS you need to clone/erase/content-aware-replace the tree branch. You can't do any of that to the Smart Object. To do any clone/heal/etc. work in PS you have to create a raster layer. Most of those books will tell you to create a blank layer above the Smart Object layer and do the clone/heal work there by setting the tool to Sample Current & Below. The second image below then is the photo with the tree branch removed. So far so good.

You put the edit away and go to bed. In the morning with fresh eyes you look at the edit and it occurs to you that one of the other input profiles in ACR would have been better. In a 100% non-destructive raw workflow you should be able to make that change and see how it looks. Unfortunately you used Photoshop which is not 100% non-destructive in a raw workflow. Let's see what happens. Dbl click on the Smart Object and you'll be taken back to ACR where you can change the input profile. It's a Canon raw file and originally I used the Neutral input profile -- let's see if landscape is better. Lots more contrast and saturation with that profile change. I like it BUT WAIT! what the bleep is going on in the sky where that branch used to be?!!!! Looks like I have a destructive workflow element. OUCH! I've got to re-do all that cloning work because the raster layer didn't update the change I made via the Smart Object. That sucks!

What about other software? Let's do the same thing in C1. The fourth illustration below is the same image processed in C1 with the same tree branch removed in C1. The left side image is the neutral profile and in the right side image I changed the profile as well as the sky color and the cloning work to remove the tree branch updated the change. Unlike in PS I don't have to do the cloning work over and that's a non-destructive raw workflow.

Do you understand now? If you think I'm wrong download that raw file and show us how to do what I did in C1 in PS.

(Download)


(Download)

larrywilk Loc: Palm Harbor, FL

I just came across this site and thought I would share.

https://www.photopea.com/