Adobe alternatives? (Page 4): Photoshop and Lightroom are both NON DESTRUCTIVE as long as you save as in a folder and close the file you worked and say no to save when you close the...

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

Photoshop and Lightroom are both NON DESTRUCTIVE as long as you save as in a folder and close the file you worked and say no to save when you close the raw file you worked on . I save as in a folder as a PSD to work on or undo later , a 16 bit TIFF and a JPEG for the web in a new folder marked with a date and name with file # from the camera. Lightroom creates a sidecar image that contains the settings and changes you made to the original and never touches the original . So I don't really know what you mean . Also the other programs I listed are only for tools not in Photoshop or Lightroom . They include ON1 for perfect resize to up size images with wraps for canvases I don't use the raw converter at all . I bought DXO for the NIK suite I don't use the other raw operators . I have Redfield for Fractalious plugin . Topaz for Clean 3, and sharpen AI . I have Photomatix for HDRI , Deep Sky stacker for Milkyway shots . I would like to have Starry landscape stacker but need a new version Mac for that . It is like any trade . A professional has many tools hanging on his belt . That is all they are to me Tools .

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Markag wrote:

Growing tired of Adobe/W10 and repeated issues with creative cloud, I’m looking for a replacement of Photoshop, Lightroom CC, RAw, Bridge — all of it. Capture One seems to come very close but not 100%
Suggestions please?
I have my own backup, file management schemes making that aspect unimportant — to me.

Love my PSE.
Simple and does most all that anyone would want to do even over cook the photo.

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

DirtFarmer wrote:

Sounds like you get an income from your photograph... (show quote)

Hobbyist is how I started but wanted to print for myself I Moved to another town when cabinet shops started to fold in St Petersburg Florida with the housing crunch . I sold my heavy machinery for cheap kept my hand tools and table saw when I shut down the cabinet shop . Moved up here to Crystal river Florida and worked in a photography Gallery that also had large format Printers . I kept shooting landscapes and wildlife and found I could sell in the Gallery to fund new camera gear and eventually the big 44" wide Canon IPF8300 printer this year a New Canon PRO4000 ..Just coming on line . I still shoot on the weekends and print all week for artist friends in galleries both painting reproductions for painters of fine art , photographers and few for myself in a gallery . i am retired 69 years old and do this at home,1 printer in the kitchen ,1 in the living room along with the 4 foot x 6 foot table for stretching canvases a 38"laminater the big l shaped desk with dual monitors and a Mac and a PC.. getting kind of cramped .

Dennis833 Loc: Australia

"Photoline 22.52" a little known but very powerful 64 bit German program. Photoline a fast compact and very robust alternative to PS but it does take a bite of a learning curve. The best part about Photoline for me is its ability to convert to CMYK plus the program will run any external program and plugins including Luminar 4, original Nik, Topaz, ect. I do however process all of my raw files in Capture One and I would also recommend purchasing Affinity Photo because this software was created by a great company and its going places.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

nikonbrain wrote:

Photoshop and Lightroom are both NON DESTRUCTIVE a... (show quote)

Non-destructive editing is used both to mean preserving the original data as well as preserving your work editing that data. I'm not concerned with that first meaning -- raw files aren't overwritten in editing. I'm concerned with the editing workflow and a destructive element in that workflow is anything that won't update with other changes -- that forces you to re-do work unnecessarily if you decide to make an editing change. So for example you begin processing a raw file and you make editing changes. You then output that raw file to an RGB TIFF files and continue to make more editing changes. The next morning you realize that you'd really prefer your edit of that image if you had done _________ with the raw file. Can you go back to that point in the raw file and make that change and will your final image update that change? Will you have to re-do the editing you did to the RGB TIFF file? That's a partially destructive workflow.

I want a raw workflow that will let me start with the raw file, finish editing and be able to go back later and change any element of that edit expecting the final image to update that change. LR does that but unfortunately forces me to other software too often to finish the job and that forces a destructive element into my workflow.

nikonbrain wrote:

Also the other programs I listed are only for tool... (show quote)

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

Yes I Can go back the next day or year to any state .Don't you know why I said I create a PSD , Photoshop Document . it can be reedited , added to , undone to any history state as long as you have your history states at 300 or 400 history states and in layers with all layers being able to be added to or deleted that is why we work in layers . I can go back a year later and change any layer and reprint without flattening the stack i can even go back to the beginning when I opened it with nothing done and save it that way . Again NON DESTRUCTIVE I can even turn off 1 ,2 or all the layers or delete them making subtle changes to the image.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

nikonbrain wrote:

Don't you know why I said I create a PSD , Photoshop Document . it can be reedited , added to , undone to any history state as long as you have your history states at 300 or 400 history states and in layers with all layers being able to be added to or deleted that is why we work in layers . I can go back a year later and change any layer and reprint without flattening the stack i can even go back to the beginning when I opened it with nothing done and save it that way . Again NON DESTRUCTIVE

Don't you know why I said raw workflow? I start every photo with a raw file. I want a non-destructive raw workflow not just a non-destructive RGB image workflow.

Editing starts with the first adjustment made after opening the raw file. I want all editing from that point on to completion to remain accessible for non-linear re-editing and I want any changes made to update the completed image. I have that with C1. I didn't have that 100% from Adobe.

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

Ysarex wrote:

Don't you know why I said raw workflow? I start every photo with a raw file. I want a non-destructive raw workflow not just a non-destructive RGB image workflow.

I just told you I never touch the raw file ever .

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

nikonbrain wrote:

I just told you I never touch the raw file ever .

You don't use raw files? Are you editing JPEGs? In any case beside the point. This isn't about what you personally do but about what the software makes possible.

jamesl Loc: Pennsylvania

Markag wrote:

Growing tired of Adobe/W10 and repeated issues with creative cloud, I’m looking for a replacement of Photoshop, Lightroom CC, RAw, Bridge — all of it. Capture One seems to come very close but not 100%
Suggestions please?
I have my own backup, file management schemes making that aspect unimportant — to me.

---------------
Affinity Photo, ON1 Photo RAW or Photoshop Elements with the "Elements+" add-on which is only $12.

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

Ysarex wrote:

You don't use raw files? Are you editing JPEGs? In any case beside the point. This isn't about what you personally do but about what the software makes possible.

When you import a raw file into photoshop and edit it and "save as" and not " save" it is saved in another location . The original stays a raw file in it's original folder never ever being edited or touched . Photoshop just made a raw copy on import To ACR adobe Camera Raw .

Markag

Agreed. I've never saved changes to a RAW file.

nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida

Markag wrote:

Agreed. I've never saved changes to a RAW file.

Thank You . Thank You very much .

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

nikonbrain wrote:

When you import a raw file into photoshop and edit it and "save as" and not " save" it is saved in another location . The original stays a raw file in it's original folder never ever being edited or touched . Photoshop just made a raw copy on import To ACR adobe Camera Raw .

ACR opens the raw file and allows you to start your editing work. Neither ACR or LR or other raw processors ever overwrite the original raw file data. The raw file data is always left untouched.

But in ACR you make editing adjustments. Those are saved in an XMP sidecar file and can be retrieved in the future if you want to make changes. When you move the image to PS the raw data is converted to RGB data and you can continue to work on the image. Which ultimately you will have to save.

That process using Adobe PS in conjunction with ACR is not 100% non-destructive. It's close but not 100%. The editing you do of the RGB image in PS proper is 100% non-destructive, but raw workflow means all the editing and that includes what's done in ACR.

Raw workflow means starting with a raw file. When you open that raw file in ACR and make adjustments you are editing your image. ACR will save what you do. If you never move the image to PS proper your editing in ACR is 100% non-destructive. You may re-open the raw file in the future and your edits saved in the sidecar file will be re-applied and you can change them. HOWEVER, if you move the image to PS proper converted to an RGB image and further edit that image you may not be able to return to the work you did in ACR, make a change and have that change update the editing done in PS. And that's less than 100% non-destructive and that's my point.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Markag wrote:

Agreed. I've never saved changes to a RAW file.

No one ever has, at least not to the raw data itself. It's not possible. Most raw editors never touch the raw file except to read it. But there are some small exceptions, eg. Canon's own DPP for example will save parametric edits in the metadata of the raw file but this does not alter the raw data. This is one major advantage of working with raw files. No software is going to accidentally or otherwise overwrite the original raw data.