Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Posts for: srt101fan
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 372 next>>
Apr 6, 2024 12:12:21   #
burkphoto wrote:
It is for anyone who uses precise language. The Op used the term ‘Printer.’ ‘Lab’ is what he wanted. Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it.


Go back to his original topic. His respondents understood what he meant. Why didn't you?
Go to
Apr 6, 2024 12:06:18   #
JD750 wrote:
In whose world. It was a complete misunderstanding. It wasn't until he clarified it that he got the answer to the question he was asking.


Not true. Go read his original topic.
Go to
Apr 6, 2024 10:45:35   #
burkphoto wrote:
Once again, 'printer' means a device used to print.

The correct terminology in the photography world is photo lab, color lab, professional photo or color lab, or giclée service bureau.

The term 'printer' DOES mean a company in the context of an offset lithography, intaglio, letterpress, web offset, or gravure printing company.

I worked for a company that owned both types of businesses. Never the twain shall meet... under the same terminology.


If you look at the original post (https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-803711-1.html#14545850 ) and the responses to that post you'll see there was no misunderstanding. I don't think terminology was an issue.
Go to
Apr 5, 2024 09:18:30   #
TriX wrote:
Wallin, I appreciate your aircraft credentials, but you’ve made so many incorrect statements about boats in the general and the accident in particular, that you haven’t demonstrated knowledge about ships or information about this particular incident or the effect of wind age on large slab sided vessels. You have implied that the boat was operating at an unsafe speed, that the design of the vessel was foolish, that the boat made a sharp turn, that the crew may have been at fault and that wind doesn’t blow boats around. None of these things are correct or jibe with the facts. You said:

“As previously mentioned, 8 knots may be the limit operating speed for that area. If that is the case, then operating on the limit at reduced visibility and decreasing space is indeed "pushing it".

8 knots is not “pushing it” - it’s the proper speed to maintain steerageway when leaving port and transiting to open waters.

“But reports says they lost control, meaning the redundancy was not there, or the redundancy were all broken too, meaning they were operating a very unsafe vessel.”

The vessel was inspected before leaving port

“Makes one think. Who in his right mind would make a multi million dollar boat that can't be steered once the power is out, and make the steering worked only by one engine? That would be gross negligence on the designer, or gross negligence on the operator/owner of the ship, if they allowed it to travel with only one its system working”

As previously mentioned, and from information readily available, in addition to the main engine, large vessels of this size typically have 3 engines for generating electricity and one spare generator

“As for the captain to overrule the pilot who was managing the emergency, well, the pilot was there for a reason. He was the captain at that moment”

No, he was not. The Captain is the master of the vessel and AlWAYS has the final authority and responsibility. The pilot is there to aid in navigation.

“There is the human factor that can not be put aside. Sometimes, the routine makes one complacent, pushing things to their limit because nothing bad happened. He might have done that speed many times, unsafely and the dice roll just caught up with him. Who knows? Maybe he was under pressure to get to the shore as fast as possible or just getting a bad case of "gethometitis" that he disregard some safety buffers”

“One thing I know, A true professional equipment operator always take many things in consideration, topmost of which is safety. There is always a preparation or adjustments to the prevailing condition. A highway may be marked 100mph, but would you drive that fast in icy road conditions? Did the Pilot knew the ship is being operated without any safety backups for its system? If he knew, would he still run it at the allowed speed limit or would he creep that hulk into the harbor so that an anchor drop could stop it on time?”

Nothing was pushed to the limit, the speed was reasonable and appropriate and no one was going home - the vessel was LEAVING port. No safety buffers were disregarded and from the videos, we know visibility was good. The vessel lost electrical power due to an as yet unknown cause, and as a result lost propulsion and steering control. The vessel was being operated safely - safety and not running aground (staying within the marked channel) and avoiding collisions are always of paramount importance when leaving or entering a harbor.

“Not discussing the wind as it happened at dead of the night which normally have still air,”

As you will see from the images below, the wind at the vessel was 6.4 knots at the time.

“ I do not think the wind was not that strong on that night to veer the ship suddenly to the pillar if that is what happened."
The point there is the sudden course change just seconds to impact.”

Vessels this size do not “suddenly veer”. If you look at the images below of the vessel’s course, you won’t see any sudden “veering” what you are seeing are a number of recorded positions, so what appears to you as a sudden change in position is actually a gentle turn or drift. You’ll notice from the course chart that the course only deviated a few degrees after losing power - consistent with the effects od wind age and current.

“Ships do not necessarily gets blown about by the wind. Sailboats won't tack if that is true”

Ships of ALL sizes are influenced by the wind, especially tall, slab sided vessels like the Dali, and I don’t understand your comment about tacking. Wind is often changing and that goes for tacking as well. Modern sailboats are not blown forward by the wind except when running before the wind. On other points of sail, they are “lifted” by the sail, much like a vertical airplane wing, with the lateral force resisted by the keel.

And finally, since you have aeronautical experience, you should be familiar with this formula which calculates the force generated by the wind against a flat object (which the cargo stack on the Dali is):

The force of wind on a flat object can be calculated using the formula F = 0.5 x ρ x A x V2, where F is the force in Newtons, ρ is the density of air in kg/m3, A is the surface area of the object in square meters, and V is the wind speed in meters per second.

P=1.222. A =16,257 V=2.68. F= 26,600 newtons = 5,958 lbs
Wallin, I appreciate your aircraft credentials, bu... (show quote)


Thank you for your valiant effort to step into Wallen's fantasy land and try to bring some sanity to his chaotic ramblings. But you must know it is a futile effort. After all, he is so much more knowledgeable than the ship's captain and crew, the pilots that guided the ship out of the harbor, the naval architects and marine engineers that designed the ship, the authors of the many international design, construction and operational rules established by U. S. and international regulatory agencies, and the inspectors that periodically assessed compliance with these rules and regulations. Throw in his expertise in meteorology and all your arguments are useless. Nice try!
Go to
Apr 1, 2024 17:27:47   #
sbschippers wrote:
We lived in Baltimore and crossed the bridge many times. Here is a photo of the RO-RO ship Morning Luck passing the Key Bridge support that was struck by the Dali, causing the bridge to collapse. The Lucy is 761' long and the Dali is 948' - almost 200' longer. Very few bridges are built to withstand a direct hit from anything that big and heavy, not matter how slowly it is moving. And even fewer have been tested.


Good picture that shows relative sizes of bridge and large ship.
Go to
Apr 1, 2024 10:19:02   #
Wallen wrote:
Makes one think. Who in his right mind would make a multi million dollar boat that can't be steered once the power is out, and make the steering worked only by one engine? That would be gross negligence on the designer, or gross negligence on the operator/owner of the ship, if they allowed it to travel with only one its system working.

As for the captain to overrule the pilot who was managing the emergency, well, the pilot was there for a reason. He was the captain at that moment. There is much to dig on that event that I'd not call it an accident, just yet.
Makes one think. Who in his right mind would make ... (show quote)


Another fine example of irresponsible pronouncements based on ignorance and fuzzy thinking....
Go to
Mar 31, 2024 23:00:06   #
don2b2 wrote:
Yes it is - about 15 years ago, I believe


Nice photo; interesting to see the whole bridge the way it was.
Go to
Mar 31, 2024 08:26:59   #
Linda From Maine wrote:
Good point. Does anyone still own a working VCR?


Yes; a combination VCR-DVD player.
Go to
Mar 30, 2024 16:52:36   #
Cragzop wrote:
Since Samuel Benjamin Bankman-Fried, has been convicted of fraud, and was the number 2 donator to the Democratic Party, behind Soros, will those Dems who received contributions from him have to return the ill gotten gains so the victims can be compensated for their losses?


Did you get lost on the way to The Attic?
Go to
Mar 30, 2024 13:27:17   #
Longshadow wrote:
40 cubic feet is a ton....... in volume.....

Isn't the English language wonderful?


And then there is tonne, and the short ton, and the long ton.....
Go to
Mar 30, 2024 13:09:10   #
dustie wrote:
Agreed, there are many different weights possible, depending if vessel is empty, ⅓ weight capacity loaded, ¼ weight capacity loaded, ⅛ weight capacity loaded, full weight capacity loaded, the density of the cargo being such the volume is fully capacity loaded, but cargo density is low enough the ship still does not settle to the plimsoll line....etc....

That wasn't the point I was trying to bring out.

I was addressing the contention of moving the loaded Dali laterally, by pushing it at the center with a tug that is a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the weight and size and draft depth.
Trying to do that in 80 seconds, or less, was a time element I put in there, because going by the available videos, and publicly released timeline, it seems reasonable to expect that is all the time that was available from the point trouble was known to the point there was absolutely no time remaining to avoid collision.

If pushing those behemoths with a flea-sized tug at the center point of their length is the way to get the job done, it seems unreasonable to think the tuggers wouldn't be doing that after this many years of ........I dunno.......doing it wrong, I guess.
Agreed, there are many different weights possible,... (show quote)


The only point I was trying to make is that the 100,000 ton "weight" number mentioned so often for Dali is NOT the weight and has nothing to do with weight, it's a measure of the ship's volume.
Go to
Mar 30, 2024 12:20:01   #
dustie wrote:
Maybe for a comparison, not necessarily to scale, but it may help get an idea.

Imagine yourself in a stream with a 120' long log, let's say, 8' in diameter. That log needs to be moved sideways to go through an opening between two pilings set in the river bed, but it is angled in the stream and heading toward one of the pilings, going off course, and it isn't very far from that piling.
At the speed it is travelling, it will be there in about 40 seconds.
Let's say it's only going 2.5 feet per second.

Now, you want to swim out there to the center of that log, push it straight sideways in the angled orientation that it has so it will go through that space between the pilings, without hitting either one, in less than 35-38 seconds.

If the way to sideways move, guide, control, shift, direct an object of 100,000+ tons, nearly one fifth of a mile long, whose lower edge is 40-50 feet below the surface of the water, using a little pusher of very diminutive size and weight, pushing only in the center of that wayward almost fifth of a mile long island, and get it done in 80 seconds or less, and not hit the.......

.......you're right !!!!!
They got nothing but numbskulls in those boats back there.....
......and after a few generations, they're only going downhill.
Maybe for a comparison, not necessarily to scale, ... (show quote)


The weight or mass of the Dali has been mentioned in several posts. Usually the figure thrown around is about 100,000 tons. The figure usually quoted to indicate the size of merchant ships is "Gross Tonnage". The number I've seen for Dali is 95,128 so that seems to be the source for the 100,000 figure.

But gross tonnage is a measure of volume not weight. "Displacement" figures tell you the weight of a ship but that number varies from Light Ship to Full Load. The total weight a ship can carry (cargo, fuel, stores, etc) is called the Deadweight Tonnage (DWT). The DWT figure I saw for Dali is 116, 851 tons. To that you add the Light Ship displacement to get the weight of the fully loaded ship.
Go to
Mar 29, 2024 18:35:24   #
dwermske wrote:
I hope you don't think that 8mph is a high rate of speed. The ships momentum (even at 8mph) would have carried it forward hundreds of yards after the loss of power. The pilot even gave the order to drop anchors but it doesn't look like that happened. The anchor dropping mechanism is totally manual and would not have been effected by the loss of power. This information was reported by FOX News. The "Black Box" carried by marine craft is very primitive compared to the "Black Box" on aircraft. The information recorded was not continuous information but snap shots taken a specific intervals. This information was reported by the head of the NTSB.
I hope you don't think that 8mph is a high rate of... (show quote)


Why do you say that dropping the anchor didn't happen? Photographs clearly show an anchor chain on the port side....

(Attached photo from freightwaves.com)


Go to
Mar 29, 2024 16:53:48   #
robertjerl wrote:
Years ago I read an article on a "breaker yard" in SE Asia. To save money they didn't use a dry dock, they waited for a very high tide and then with tugs and/or the ships engines got each ship up to max possible speed and ran them up the very wide and very slick sand & mud beach of a very low, flat shoreline as far as the momentum would carry them. Some made it so far they were above the tide line. Then work crews with cutting torches etc. swarmed over them until the last ton of metal went off to be melted and recycled.
With things as heavy as ships momentum is king.
Years ago I read an article on a "breaker yar... (show quote)


Alang, India
Go to
Mar 29, 2024 10:57:42   #
SteveR wrote:
Interesting suggestion. In Detroit there is not only the Ambassador Bridge that links Detroit and Windsor, Ontorio but also a tunnel, which I always found to be fun to take as a kid.


Baltimore already has two tunnels!?
Go to
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 372 next>>
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.