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Jan 7, 2020 13:05:54   #
What you have should work just fine. HOWEVER, if you’re hoping we here at UHH can provide you with the justification to go buy that new equipment you really secretly WANT, I’m more than happy to help you out. You own crap. Go get new stuff. You need it. You deserve it. 😈
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Jan 7, 2020 12:54:56   #
rmalarz wrote:
As I've seen quoted before, "bracketing in for people who don't know how to expose properly".
--Bob


A bit harsh (not to mention, arrogant). Do you personally subscribe to that philosophy?

I often bracket a half stop (sometimes a full stop) over and under what I decide is the proper exposure. This allows me, when I go to process a shot to select the exposure which I think will best render the highlights or shadows to my liking. That can sometimes eliminate the range of adjustment I need to make. It’s not a matter of being “necessary” in the sense that if I don’t bracket I’m avoiding getting crap. It’s more a means of increasing my odds of an exposure that lets me process efficiently.

I also often bracket wider for potential HDR if I think an HDR treatment might work for the final image I have in mind.

I take the attitude that it costs me nothing to bracket and may at times prevent my being disappointed.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:39:39   #
graybeard wrote:
Excuse me for my lack of profundity. I am not an arteest, such as thou.


(Sigh). Whatever.
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Jan 3, 2020 19:27:31   #
SuperflyTNT wrote:
True. I only recognize good satire.


I caught the sarcasm, which I chose to ignore. Sometimes people prefer to be salty rather than engage in meaningful discussion. 😐
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Jan 3, 2020 12:34:31   #
graybeard wrote:
Nice image, but less a photo than a surreal artsy lab job. It almost looks like a painting. That is a compliment.


It does have a somewhat surreal quality about it but in its full size (30x40) there is little doubt that it is a photo, and a very sharp, detailed one at that. My purpose in using it as an example was to illustrate that at times a tripod may play a critical role in creating a photo.

(A lot of my images are processed to intentionally have a “painterly” quality, but not this one. That feeling may be from the way the sky was “icing up” as the temperature was dropping rapidly. Also, having the sky and foreground exposed six stops apart gives it a lighting range not typical of a single exposure. It has been very successful, in both competitions and sales. I’m very proud of it)
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Jan 3, 2020 12:05:43   #
graybeard wrote:
The MOST important piece of equipment you have?? You can take a picture with a camera but without a tripod. Try taking a picture with a tripod but without a camera. Nice trick if you can do it !!


I understood what Marty meant by that statement. I have a similar viewpoint. Marty may have been a little hyperbolic, but most get the point.

My tripod is ONE of my most import pieces of equipment. It serves as an integral part of my shooting process, to the extent that I didn’t hesitate to lay out more cash than I have for some lens.
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Jan 2, 2020 20:55:11   #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
This complaint brings up an important issue to be considered. Any competition or any individual judge can not address the
requirements of all photographers that care to enter competitions or all specializations in photography or any art. All judges can not be expected to be, in this case, a wildlife expert or a zoologist. A judge may critique an image strictly on his or her concepts of composition or any other criteria. In this particular case, obviously, the judge did not understand the natural habitat of the animal in the image, nor the configuration of the cat's tail as it would appear in nature. Certain images have documentary or scientific information or value that should not be altered for artistic purposes. A truly great image MAY have both artistic and documentary attributes.

In a perfect situation, specialized competitions, in this case, wildlife photography, would have a judge or judging panel that is expert or at the very least, familiar with the category. In a camera club with a relatively small membership, this kind of specialization may be unlikely and entrants need to factor theses limitation into their results and not become overly disgruntled.

Some folks on this forum tend to deriede professional competitions as being "cookie-cutter" or too conservative or having a sameness in scoring images. Some professional associations that are comprised of traditional portrait, wedding, and commercial photographers will have standards and judges that reflect the standards, norms, and tradition of these industries. This is not to say that creative, unique or "out of the box" or fine art images will not receive due recognition but this is a possibility.

My feeling on the subject of competitions is simple. They can be meaningful, educational and beneficial if they are taken with the right attitude. They are no place for sore losers, egotistical winners or folks who only accept positive reviews all the time. You have to take the criticisms from whom the come and evaluate them accordingly and sensibly. This business of having to have a "thick skin" is ridiculous- an open mind with common sense is a much better pre-requisite. If, however, "you can't take a punch, don't enter the ring" because if you become devastated, discouraged, angry or combative from any negative review, competitions are not a healthy activity for you. Yes, there will be unfair, uneducated and downright stupid judgments from time to time but in the long run, there will be fairer, reasonable and constructive reviews most of the time.

I am certainly NOT the foremost authority or expert on competitions. I do, however, have a long experience with them as a contestant and judge. In 1958, as an after-school part-time "slave" in a photo studio- janitor and passport-photo expert, and darkroom assistant, I learned my trade through critiques from the boss and all the senior photographers. They insisted that I shoot and enter my prints into pro competitions and attended as many open judgings as I could. I learned to take my knocks and accolades early in life. As a kid, it was fun and games but it retrospect, it was one hell of a learning experience.

Some 62 years later, I still have many critics. I still enter the occasional competition, but that's the tip of the iceberg. Among my OTHER critics are all the clients, art directors, editors, my lovely wife, my kids and grandkids, my in-laws- and it seems the janitor in the building where I have my studio has a keen eye for composition (really- no kidding) and if only our cat could speak! And... if only the criticisms would be confined to my photography. As Rodney Dangerfield used to say, "I get no respect"...well sometimes!
This complaint brings up an important issue to be ... (show quote)


Your responses are way too sensible. 😁
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Jan 2, 2020 20:43:25   #
graybeard wrote:
Tripods are not necessary for anything !!


We can all probably debate the “necessity” of using a tripod, but I would challenge anyone to deny that there are times when not using one will only result in unnecessary hours in editing and countless headaches! Here is an example of an image I did a number of years ago. I wholeheartedly doubt I (and the vast majority of others) could have captured this hand held, and have had it come out as successfully.

The image is a composite of two exposures; one for the sky and one for the foreground, six stops separating them. Given the fine detail at the edges of the merged exposures, it was important that they be very very closely aligned. Even a quarter inch difference would make compositing the two exposures difficult. As the image was intended for a rather large print, sharpness was a critical concern. It took some time to get the composition exactly as I wanted it, and then a wait of twenty minutes waiting for the sun to drop down into position. When I finally got to the point of taking the shot, I had just a few seconds to change the bracketing settings between exposures. The bottom line is that I can’t imagine being able to achieve the precision I wanted hand held!

I would never tell another photographer that they should approach their work in the same way as I do. If hand held suits your needs, then go for it and enjoy. But please, don’t assume that your needs are the same as others, and recognize that blanket pronouncements of this nature serve no one well.

Alone on the Mountain

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Jan 1, 2020 02:13:45   #
Increased automation of many camera fictions does not cause mindful photographers to become less mindful. They do not cause photographers to become less observant, creatively lazy, or less knowledgeable about the numerous factors that contribute to a well crafted image. Those would all be choices made by photographers who give too much credit to the camera for the success of an image, and too little to the creative elements supplied by the photographer himself. Automation does not hamper a person’s “artistic eye” and sense of composition. They do not dictate to the photographer the mood, literal and emotional content, or sense of space the photographer envisions for the final image.

Automation quite simply streamlined some procedures that have sometimes been a pain in the arse. 😈
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Dec 31, 2019 13:47:50   #
So much of the satisfaction or frustration people have with photography competitions seems to correlate with the makeup of the judging pool and the organizational scheme for the competition. At the club level, clubs that draw judges from a pool in which judges have gone through training in both image evaluations and in how to critique in a clear and informative way, are probably going to be more satisfied with judging results than clubs who draw their judges from (as one person commented earlier) random club members. That is why some of us here recommend that rather than give up on competitions entirely, instead seek out a club, such as a PSA affiliate, where you know the judges have both skill in their own right and have had training to help develop their abilities to provide quality critiques and evaluations.

IMHO, many club competitions suffer from their organizational setup. The most effective scheme seems to be when a) images compete within predetermined categories (pictorial, nature, monochrome, travel, etc.) and b) when members also compete within ability levels (beginner, intermediate, advanced, master). In other words, within the competition apples are compared to apples, oranges to other oranges, and newbies don’t get compared to masters. Again, many PSA affiliates organize their club competitions in this way, but if that is not a viable option for one’s club it is still possible for a club to organize in a similar fashion.
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Dec 30, 2019 19:15:29   #
bleirer wrote:
If you position it just so it saves your spot at the crowded national park overlook when shooting the same scene for the ten millionth time.


Shooting Horsetail Falls, Yosemite.

Attached file:
(Download)
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Dec 30, 2019 18:56:52   #
RogerN wrote:
I was going to purchase a high end drone to fly over and video the amazingly beautiful mountains and desert surrounding Las Vegas. However, after studying the issue, I have found that most areas surrounding and inside Las Vegas have banned flying drones. Anyone know anything about flying over BLM lands out in this part of the world ??????


Flying drones over BLM land is not generally a problem if done in accordance with FAA guidelines. Exceptions might be areas with sensitive archeological sites. Most state and National Parks are also off limits (places like Valley of Fire State Park).

Here is an article that may provide other helpful info. However, proceed with caution. The article list Red Rock area as being ok, but I have heard that recent rulings have placed it off limits.
https://uavcoach.com/where-to-fly-drone/las-vegas/
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Dec 30, 2019 18:38:05   #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I have never entered a camera club competition but I have been called upon to judge several of them. I do have quite a bit of experience as a competitor and judge in professional print competitions. So...I hope I can help you out here.

I am not one for accolades and trophies, although they look nice on the showroom wall at my studio- good PR. My main motivation to enter these contests was to get the critiques from good, knowledgeable, informative and fair judges- many well-know masters in their specialties. Theses competition served me well in their educational value.

In professional competition, judges go through a training process and learn the basic criteria in analyzing, assessing, scoring, and adjudicating on the entries. Of, course their own experience, tastes, methodologies, and philosophies are in the mix but there needs to be, at least, basic underlying structure and language to communicate their opinions by which the entrants can benefit. Just saying that they like or dislike an image is grossly insufficient for educational purposes. In an OPEN JUDGING, where the contestants and others can observe the judging everyone present can learn why the image is successful or not and if there are issues that can be remedied or corrected, that information is extremely valuable. Obviously, the spectators can not argue, comment or solicit explanation from the judges- now and then there is a round of applause or the odd "boo", but that is discouraged!

Oftentimes there is a pane of 4 or more judges and a chairperson. As you mention the can be differenced of opinion within a panel but usually, there is a consensus. If thereis a vast difference in scoring a challenge is called the lowest scoring judge has to justify his or her assessment and the other has to give their positive input. Sometimes thereis a compromise or raise in the score and sometimes the low score prevails. The final score is an average of all the scores. Observing these challenges is also extremely educational.

Nothing is perfect and sometimes, rarely, there is an unfair judge or someone who is prejudicial to his own style and can not be objective. A fair judge will recuse him or herself if the submission is beyond their understanding of the style, milieu or specialized category.

Some of the major aspects that are in the criteria are technical basics such as exposure, range, basic print quality, lighting (as in-studio or setup lighting or use of natural or existing light, unity or purposeful disunity of lighting, color usage, and harmony, composition, key and mood, uniqueness and originality, subject treatment, and finished presentation and physical craftsmanship- things like mounting, surface treatment, cleanliness and lack of mars or defects. Then thereis viewer impact, storytelling qualities, and of course, a major issue, does the visual attention go to the main subject or the motif of the image. So...beig a good judge is an art and a science and being a good communicator. Hopefully, above all, knowing what you are talking about!

Being a good competitor is also an art and a science. After a while, you will develop certain instincts as to who knows what they are looking at and talking about- you'll be able to separate the bull-shooters form the pros! So...you won't become upset what someone feeds you unjustified negative criticism. When the criticism is negative but constructive and thereis logic in the critique, there is no reason to become upset and also remember that even the words of a grandmaster are not carved in stone. If there a consensus among judges in a panel, I usually assume the assessment is accurate. I usually advise disgruntled, aggravated, frustrated and disappointed competitors to simply take the critique under advisement, consider it a lesson, go home and try out the advice and "ill bet you will do better next time.

ALSO IMPORTANT: Never accept or tolerate an overly-harsh or mean-spirited critique. If you hear any "judge" say "garbage, scrap, junk, etc", about anybody's work, pick up your prints a go home. As a print judge, I have seen some pretty rough stuff but I have to consider that somebody made that, took the time to submit it, and deserves good information as to how to improve. If the still get "mad" at me, I can't help that but, at least I know I was fair and attempted to be constructive. Consider also that a judge who gives "attaboy and attagirl" critiques to everyone, just to make them feel good is actually doing a disservice to the contestants.

My advice, if you lie to engage in competitions, fine the useful and educations, DON"T give up the ship and continue. I hope the professionals that are called in to judge do not have inflated egos and talk down or look down at amateurs, hobbyists and enthusiasts. In my experience at camera clubs, I have found some fine talent and sadly, have encountered some of that aforementioned rough-stuff form supposed pros.

Problem is, competitions can be very educational, but they aren't direct mentoring! I realize that it can be frustrating when you can't find out exactly why and how somebody assessed your work. Now and again one of my amateurs, friends will drop int my shop and ask me why I scored some of their work the way I did and the do tell me what they tried to do or express. If thereis a professional in your area that is willing to do that or who offers classes, those are the best mentoring opportunities. Always ask someone who's work you respect.

I hope this helps! Good luck and Happy New Year.
I have never entered a camera club competition but... (show quote)


Excellent advice, very well stated. Thank you.
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Dec 30, 2019 18:30:48   #
Martin wrote:
I have belonged to a camera club for the past 12 years. I always enter images on our competition
meeting. Judges constantly contradict themselves. I am so fed up with their interpretation of what a photo should be that I will no longer enter my images in competition. Have any others had or has the same complaint?

I think the judges or so called professionals should let the photographer have a minute to explain what they were trying to do with their photo. I realize that photography is subjective.
I have belonged to a camera club for the past 12 y... (show quote)


Our camera club relies on judges from a list of individuals who have completed a training course. Most are highly accomplished photographers in their own right ( one in particular has had the cover photo on numerous PSA journals). All provide detailed critiques during judging. While I sometimes have a difference of opinion as to best image, I have yet to encounter a case where I thought a judge was completely off the mark. I have entered many competitions on many levels (club, region, state, National) and have found judging to be pretty consistent.

BTW, photographer’s comments as to their intent, while appropriate in some critique sessions, are irrelevant in a judged, competition setting. The hay is already in the proverbial barn, so to speak. At that point the image has to stand on its own merits, apart from the photographer’s intents and explanations.

Possibly, your club might discuss the source for your judging pool. Are you sure your judges have judging training, or are you just drawing from a pool of people recommended by members as being “pretty good photographers”? Does the club have the ability to become a PSA club affiliate in order to take advantage of PSA trained judges?
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Dec 30, 2019 18:04:00   #
MauiMoto wrote:
Because Marxists, communists, atheists, whatever you want to call them, have hijacked our reward circuits, training us to be the opposite of humble. My father always said, "The more you know, the more you know how little you know.", just the opposite of the attitude today.


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