Camera club competition judges.
Dec 30, 2019 15:42:24 #
I have belonged to a camera club for the past 12 years. I always enter images on our competition
meeting. Judges constantly contradict themselves. I am so fed up with their interpretation of what a photo should be that I will no longer enter my images in competition. Have any others had or has the same complaint?
I think the judges or so called professionals should let the photographer have a minute to explain what they were trying to do with their photo. I realize that photography is subjective.
meeting. Judges constantly contradict themselves. I am so fed up with their interpretation of what a photo should be that I will no longer enter my images in competition. Have any others had or has the same complaint?
I think the judges or so called professionals should let the photographer have a minute to explain what they were trying to do with their photo. I realize that photography is subjective.
Dec 30, 2019 15:46:18 #
If you have to tell a story on why it's a keeper, it's likely not a keeper ...
Dec 30, 2019 16:25:42 #
Whatever "game" you are playing you need to understand the rules, develop skills and follow the lead of winners. Review the images that have won over the 12 years and use those as a selection criteria for your submissions. Better luck in the future!
Dec 30, 2019 17:50:44 #
Martin wrote:
I have belonged to a camera club for the past 12 y... (show quote)
I take photos for fun and my own enjoyment, that's why I don't belong to a club. No assignments and my only competition is with myself.
Dec 30, 2019 17:59:51 #
Martin wrote:
I have belonged to a camera club for the past 12 y... (show quote)
I am a certified judge for the Chicago Area Camera Clubs. To be a judge you need to take a class and pass an exam. At most judging if asked by the club we will explain our scoring and what could have been done to the image to get a higher score.We have three judges scoring at the same time.
Dec 30, 2019 18:01:09 #
Who are these judges? Are they elected by the club members? Are the judges also club members, or are they outsiders?
Dec 30, 2019 18:05:31 #
rook2c4 wrote:
Who are these judges? Are they elected by the club members? Are the judges also club members, or are they outsiders?
99.9 percent of the judges are NOT from the club being judged.
Dec 30, 2019 18:08:17 #
Subjective judging, even done within parameters, can always be frustrating. Not to say they are totally similar, but the judging on America's Got Talent has driven me nuts for years. On the whole they get the winner right, but so many very good people get knocked out that shouldn't.
Dec 30, 2019 18:08:56 #
Martin wrote:
I have belonged to a camera club for the past 12 y... (show quote)
I don't enter my photos for contest and I do believe that judges do have different opinions on what is good/bad. I also do believe that some judges are not competent. With that said I don't think they should let the contestant explains. All art works should be judged without an explanation from the artist, the works should speak for themselves.
Dec 30, 2019 18:10:51 #
Mac wrote:
I take photos for fun and my own enjoyment, that's why I don't belong to a club. No assignments and my only competition is with myself.
I do too but sometimes I do take assignments from my wife. Those are times that I have to take pictures that please her.
Dec 30, 2019 18:22:21 #
I have never entered a camera club competition but I have been called upon to judge several of them. I do have quite a bit of experience as a competitor and judge in professional print competitions. So...I hope I can help you out here.
I am not one for accolades and trophies, although they look nice on the showroom wall at my studio- good PR. My main motivation to enter these contests was to get the critiques from good, knowledgeable, informative and fair judges- many well-know masters in their specialties. Theses competition served me well in their educational value.
In professional competition, judges go through a training process and learn the basic criteria in analyzing, assessing, scoring, and adjudicating on the entries. Of, course their own experience, tastes, methodologies, and philosophies are in the mix but there needs to be, at least, basic underlying structure and language to communicate their opinions by which the entrants can benefit. Just saying that they like or dislike an image is grossly insufficient for educational purposes. In an OPEN JUDGING, where the contestants and others can observe the judging everyone present can learn why the image is successful or not and if there are issues that can be remedied or corrected, that information is extremely valuable. Obviously, the spectators can not argue, comment or solicit explanation from the judges- now and then there is a round of applause or the odd "boo", but that is discouraged!
Oftentimes there is a pane of 4 or more judges and a chairperson. As you mention the can be differenced of opinion within a panel but usually, there is a consensus. If thereis a vast difference in scoring a challenge is called the lowest scoring judge has to justify his or her assessment and the other has to give their positive input. Sometimes thereis a compromise or raise in the score and sometimes the low score prevails. The final score is an average of all the scores. Observing these challenges is also extremely educational.
Nothing is perfect and sometimes, rarely, there is an unfair judge or someone who is prejudicial to his own style and can not be objective. A fair judge will recuse him or herself if the submission is beyond their understanding of the style, milieu or specialized category.
Some of the major aspects that are in the criteria are technical basics such as exposure, range, basic print quality, lighting (as in-studio or setup lighting or use of natural or existing light, unity or purposeful disunity of lighting, color usage, and harmony, composition, key and mood, uniqueness and originality, subject treatment, and finished presentation and physical craftsmanship- things like mounting, surface treatment, cleanliness and lack of mars or defects. Then thereis viewer impact, storytelling qualities, and of course, a major issue, does the visual attention go to the main subject or the motif of the image. So...beig a good judge is an art and a science and being a good communicator. Hopefully, above all, knowing what you are talking about!
Being a good competitor is also an art and a science. After a while, you will develop certain instincts as to who knows what they are looking at and talking about- you'll be able to separate the bull-shooters form the pros! So...you won't become upset what someone feeds you unjustified negative criticism. When the criticism is negative but constructive and thereis logic in the critique, there is no reason to become upset and also remember that even the words of a grandmaster are not carved in stone. If there a consensus among judges in a panel, I usually assume the assessment is accurate. I usually advise disgruntled, aggravated, frustrated and disappointed competitors to simply take the critique under advisement, consider it a lesson, go home and try out the advice and "ill bet you will do better next time.
ALSO IMPORTANT: Never accept or tolerate an overly-harsh or mean-spirited critique. If you hear any "judge" say "garbage, scrap, junk, etc", about anybody's work, pick up your prints a go home. As a print judge, I have seen some pretty rough stuff but I have to consider that somebody made that, took the time to submit it, and deserves good information as to how to improve. If the still get "mad" at me, I can't help that but, at least I know I was fair and attempted to be constructive. Consider also that a judge who gives "attaboy and attagirl" critiques to everyone, just to make them feel good is actually doing a disservice to the contestants.
My advice, if you lie to engage in competitions, fine the useful and educations, DON"T give up the ship and continue. I hope the professionals that are called in to judge do not have inflated egos and talk down or look down at amateurs, hobbyists and enthusiasts. In my experience at camera clubs, I have found some fine talent and sadly, have encountered some of that aforementioned rough-stuff form supposed pros.
Problem is, competitions can be very educational, but they aren't direct mentoring! I realize that it can be frustrating when you can't find out exactly why and how somebody assessed your work. Now and again one of my amateurs, friends will drop int my shop and ask me why I scored some of their work the way I did and the do tell me what they tried to do or express. If thereis a professional in your area that is willing to do that or who offers classes, those are the best mentoring opportunities. Always ask someone who's work you respect.
I hope this helps! Good luck and Happy New Year.
I am not one for accolades and trophies, although they look nice on the showroom wall at my studio- good PR. My main motivation to enter these contests was to get the critiques from good, knowledgeable, informative and fair judges- many well-know masters in their specialties. Theses competition served me well in their educational value.
In professional competition, judges go through a training process and learn the basic criteria in analyzing, assessing, scoring, and adjudicating on the entries. Of, course their own experience, tastes, methodologies, and philosophies are in the mix but there needs to be, at least, basic underlying structure and language to communicate their opinions by which the entrants can benefit. Just saying that they like or dislike an image is grossly insufficient for educational purposes. In an OPEN JUDGING, where the contestants and others can observe the judging everyone present can learn why the image is successful or not and if there are issues that can be remedied or corrected, that information is extremely valuable. Obviously, the spectators can not argue, comment or solicit explanation from the judges- now and then there is a round of applause or the odd "boo", but that is discouraged!
Oftentimes there is a pane of 4 or more judges and a chairperson. As you mention the can be differenced of opinion within a panel but usually, there is a consensus. If thereis a vast difference in scoring a challenge is called the lowest scoring judge has to justify his or her assessment and the other has to give their positive input. Sometimes thereis a compromise or raise in the score and sometimes the low score prevails. The final score is an average of all the scores. Observing these challenges is also extremely educational.
Nothing is perfect and sometimes, rarely, there is an unfair judge or someone who is prejudicial to his own style and can not be objective. A fair judge will recuse him or herself if the submission is beyond their understanding of the style, milieu or specialized category.
Some of the major aspects that are in the criteria are technical basics such as exposure, range, basic print quality, lighting (as in-studio or setup lighting or use of natural or existing light, unity or purposeful disunity of lighting, color usage, and harmony, composition, key and mood, uniqueness and originality, subject treatment, and finished presentation and physical craftsmanship- things like mounting, surface treatment, cleanliness and lack of mars or defects. Then thereis viewer impact, storytelling qualities, and of course, a major issue, does the visual attention go to the main subject or the motif of the image. So...beig a good judge is an art and a science and being a good communicator. Hopefully, above all, knowing what you are talking about!
Being a good competitor is also an art and a science. After a while, you will develop certain instincts as to who knows what they are looking at and talking about- you'll be able to separate the bull-shooters form the pros! So...you won't become upset what someone feeds you unjustified negative criticism. When the criticism is negative but constructive and thereis logic in the critique, there is no reason to become upset and also remember that even the words of a grandmaster are not carved in stone. If there a consensus among judges in a panel, I usually assume the assessment is accurate. I usually advise disgruntled, aggravated, frustrated and disappointed competitors to simply take the critique under advisement, consider it a lesson, go home and try out the advice and "ill bet you will do better next time.
ALSO IMPORTANT: Never accept or tolerate an overly-harsh or mean-spirited critique. If you hear any "judge" say "garbage, scrap, junk, etc", about anybody's work, pick up your prints a go home. As a print judge, I have seen some pretty rough stuff but I have to consider that somebody made that, took the time to submit it, and deserves good information as to how to improve. If the still get "mad" at me, I can't help that but, at least I know I was fair and attempted to be constructive. Consider also that a judge who gives "attaboy and attagirl" critiques to everyone, just to make them feel good is actually doing a disservice to the contestants.
My advice, if you lie to engage in competitions, fine the useful and educations, DON"T give up the ship and continue. I hope the professionals that are called in to judge do not have inflated egos and talk down or look down at amateurs, hobbyists and enthusiasts. In my experience at camera clubs, I have found some fine talent and sadly, have encountered some of that aforementioned rough-stuff form supposed pros.
Problem is, competitions can be very educational, but they aren't direct mentoring! I realize that it can be frustrating when you can't find out exactly why and how somebody assessed your work. Now and again one of my amateurs, friends will drop int my shop and ask me why I scored some of their work the way I did and the do tell me what they tried to do or express. If thereis a professional in your area that is willing to do that or who offers classes, those are the best mentoring opportunities. Always ask someone who's work you respect.
I hope this helps! Good luck and Happy New Year.
Dec 30, 2019 18:25:35 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I have never entered a camera club competition but... (show quote)
What do you think about the OP suggestion to let the contestant a minute to speak about his/her work? My opinion is not to let the photographer says anything.
Dec 30, 2019 18:27:41 #
BebuLamar wrote:
I do too but sometimes I do take assignments from my wife. Those are times that I have to take pictures that please her.
Can't refuse those assignments.
Dec 30, 2019 18:30:48 #
Martin wrote:
I have belonged to a camera club for the past 12 y... (show quote)
Our camera club relies on judges from a list of individuals who have completed a training course. Most are highly accomplished photographers in their own right ( one in particular has had the cover photo on numerous PSA journals). All provide detailed critiques during judging. While I sometimes have a difference of opinion as to best image, I have yet to encounter a case where I thought a judge was completely off the mark. I have entered many competitions on many levels (club, region, state, National) and have found judging to be pretty consistent.
BTW, photographer’s comments as to their intent, while appropriate in some critique sessions, are irrelevant in a judged, competition setting. The hay is already in the proverbial barn, so to speak. At that point the image has to stand on its own merits, apart from the photographer’s intents and explanations.
Possibly, your club might discuss the source for your judging pool. Are you sure your judges have judging training, or are you just drawing from a pool of people recommended by members as being “pretty good photographers”? Does the club have the ability to become a PSA club affiliate in order to take advantage of PSA trained judges?
Dec 30, 2019 18:38:05 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I have never entered a camera club competition but... (show quote)
Excellent advice, very well stated. Thank you.
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