blackest Loc: Ireland

so 24 seats at $50 a month for 12 months $14,400 ... Absolute bargain compared to the $6,000 it cost as an upgrade .... hmm.

Quantus5

Marionsho -- Well said!!! You definitely get it.

Using the own versus rent analogy for discussion purposes for comparing the perpetual licensing model versus the subscription model is very legit. Adobe uses the subscription model exclusively which is like renting.

Perpetual Use Model is a licensing model, where the cost to own an application is calculated up-front and charged to the licensee in return to a perpetual (forever) right to use the software.
For discussion purposes -- you don't technically "own" the software, but the characteristics of a perpetual use license are a lot like owning, so using the "ownership" analogy is valid for discussion purposes.

A subscription is a term license, or a license that allows you to use a software application for a defined length of time. You pay for a certain amount of time, and if you don't keep renewing the license expires.

I find that the people on UHH tend to be very educated, and almost everyone understands this distinction -- they're just using the terms for comparison purposes.

I of course, highly prefer the "Perpetual Use Model" because it is like owning. I pay up front and if I want to use that software as long as it will run on my computer that's my choice. Subscription, you have to pay (on a monthly or annual basis) whether you use the software or not.

Each pricing model has it's pros and cons. But just be aware that the subscription model is usually more expensive, and in Adobe's case it is much more expensive than other PP software like: Affinity, Luminar, Paint Shop Pro, etc... I've said this before if you're ok with paying $120 a year for the Adobe subscription then this is a legit strategy and go for it, and if you are not -- there are plenty of excellent alternatives, even PhotoShop Elements, which is a very good program for many.

I use Corel PaintShop Pro which typically costs about $60 (on sale) for a perpetual use license. The price for Serif Affinity is around $50 for a perpetual license (so that is also a great option). Having a perpetual use license means I can upgrade when I want. I usually find that a three year cycle works well (and occasionally will upgrade more often if the vendor comes out with some features I feel are worth the upgrade). So for a 3-year period I typically pay $60. The price calculation for the Adobe LR/PS $10 a month is $120 a year, or $360 a year. The calculation is extremely simple. Hmm... $60 versus $360 over a 3-year period? As an "enthusiast" -- I much prefer paying the $60, and that's what I do. :-)

Yes -- I get it if you are a professional and can write off the cost, then your decision may be very different, but if you are an "enthusiast" -- in most cases Adobe's subscription model just doesn't make much sense, when there are so many other high quality PP alternatives.

Quantus5

I was just looking at an article that listed a ton of alternatives to Adobe. So if you don't like the subscription model, plenty of choices. Vote with your feet!

DxO Optics, CyberLink, Corel, ON1, MacPhun, PhaseOne, Serif, Zoner, ACDSee, GIMP, Pixlr, Meitu, PhotoScape, Magix.

The Adobe alternatives that I see that are most mentioned on UHH are: DxO, Corel, MacPhun, PhaseOne, GIMP, and Serif.

MacPhun is the company that makes Luminar and Serif is the company that makes Affinity.

There are even more free options. My Dad uses Picassa, because it is very easy to use and does everything that he needs. His cost: $0. If Picassa does everything he needs, why pay more?

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

To be fair, compare Adobe vs Adobe, before and after CC. It was considerably more expensive, development cycles and updates we're slower to come. Overall, the CC products are at the top of the heap, all products considered. When CC was announced, I looked a a number of apps to possibly migrate to. None offered the stability, versatility, industry-wide support provided by Adobe software. And this remains true today. I don't see any threats to Adobe's dominance of the graphics software market. For that matter, I am not aware of any educational institutions teaching anything else.

dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl

Yes but those are LEGAL licenses and NOT pirated. If you are a company and want to stay legal, that is important. If you don't care about legality.... just get the job done, then fine, you MAY find guest quarters at some Federal or State prison and the licenses won't make a difference. Remember, you are PAYING someone (okay a corporation who pays their programing talent) for their work. No one said you HAVE to use Adobe. You can always use any of the other programs out there. And since Individual and group licensing of Adobe (appears) to be going away..... you can either stay with older programs no longer supported, or find other legal sources. Yes, Adobe is most used by advanced amateurs and professional media people (pro photographers included) but if you have an employment situation where you need 24 seats of Adobe, $50 per month for ALL of the Adobe product (and I believe that when you were saying $6000 for an upgrade, you were only upgrading Photoshop and maybe Lightroom, not Illustrator, In Design, XD, Premiere Pro, After Effects, Dimension, Portfolio, Spark, Acrobat, Dream Weaver, Muse, Animate, Character Animator, Audition, Bridge, Media Encoder, In Copy, Prelude, Fuse, Lightroom CC, Lightroom Classic, Photoshop, and Camera Raw, in addition to 100 gigabytes of Cloud which can be used to move or share developing projects between "chairs" regardless of where they are in the world. Not bad for $%0 per month. Sure you can do it on the cheap and pick and choose, but this way, you have it all and don't have to search for some way to accomplish a project or bid.

Jakebrake Loc: Broomfield, Colorado

Good morning and Merry Christmas Gene. I read and appreciate all of your very knowledgeable and informative posts here on UHH, and thank you for teaching me much about photography. Several years ago Adobe had a 90 day free trial of PS & Lightroom which I subscribed to. After using the program during that time I came to the conclusion it was entirely more than I needed, steep learning curve and didn't really want to, at the age of 72 attend an "educational institution" to learn PP software and pay a monthly fee. Consequently I bought PSE12 & Scott Kelby's Elements 12 book and use other free programs like Topaz Studio. Being an advanced amateur, these programs serve my needs in adjusting my images quite well. I think the Adobe pay to play monthly at $9.95 serves you pros and dedicated amateurs who eat, live and breathe photography wonderfully, but for me, it being just a hobby, just not so much.

Bill_de Loc: US

Thank you. Obviously this is a good deal for you.

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blackest Loc: Ireland

Burkephoto gave the price of $6000 for 24 seats http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-503488-11.html#8505586

To be fair its not much of a business cost when its keeping 24 people gainfully employed, You gave the price per seat on the subscription model.

As subscription models go it's not great. Even the phone companies do better, you contract with them and at the end of the contract which these days tends to be 2 years you have the iPhone you have been using to keep for as long as you care to have it.

I think most people would be happy enough if Adobe unlocked lightroom say after 2 years, with the understanding that there would be no no updates if you stopped your subscription. They don't want to do that though, probably because a lot of people would be fine with stopping after 2 years and would only continue or restart if they bought a new camera or new lens.

One more thing that I find irritating about Adobe is the "we cant add features to the standalone version" When you see companies like Apple and Serif and others do that all the time.

We can't maintain a standalone version and a subscription version... yet more bull. The only thing that makes the software a subscription is the license check in the amt framework. Disable that and the license checks no longer operate. Its the same for all their software. Thats why if someone wants to pirate cc2018 they can. It's the paying customer that gets the raw end of this deal.

The lock in with Lightroom CC is the big issue really Gene said on another thread he has 20,000 photo's under Lightroom CC edits he can't touch with anything else other than Lightroom CC, edits that are not fully understood by any standalone version of Lightroom. Thats a lot of time and creative effort being held by Adobe. Granted a few minutes can have a cracked copy installed and working but after all the money paid in should that need to be an option?

Anyway unless i'm making money with it, i'm not prepared to take up Adobes current terms for Lightroom.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Not a fair comparison. We used ONLY 24 seats of Photoshop. We didn’t use any of the other 20+ apps that are now part of the CC package. The whole package for business is $70/mo. Single seats of PS CC 2018 for business are $30/mo.

For individuals only, the 4-app Photography Bundle (Ps, Br, Lr CC, Lr CLASSIC CC) is $10/mo. The single app price for individuals only is $20/month! The all 20+ apps price for individuals only is $50/month.

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html?sdid=KKQWX&mv=search&s_kwcid=AL!3085!3!232257925571!e!!g!!adobe%20creative%20cloud&ef_id=Wj-QPwAAAQZROREe:20171224160519:s

blackest Loc: Ireland

ok at $30 a month per seat x 24 it is $8640 a year on your pricing

bpulv Loc: Buena Park, CA

I agree with you, however I will not subscribe to cloud storage for multiple reasons:

1) My pictures would be out of my 100% control

2) The provider could raise prices to the point that I could be cut off from my photos

3) The provider could go out of business, be seized by a bankruptcy court, etc.

4) The provider could be hacked, have a catastrophic server failure or any of a myriad of other possible issues that would compromise my photos.

I triple backup my photographs using a combination of a secondary dedicated editing drive, a RAID system with five redundant drives and offsite storage of hot swappable RAID hard drives in my safe deposit box at the bank.

TheDman Loc: USA

Who's telling you to subscribe to cloud storage?

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

There is no limit if that is what it takes to achieve your vision of the image. Ansel Adam would expose a negative to the best of his ability in the field, and then spend hours in the darkroom achieving the look he desired. Was Moonrise over Halfdome or Moonrise Hernandez New Mexico a photograph or art?

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anotherview Loc: California

Nicely said, and a balanced view taking account of individual need.

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

I've been leasing a Toyota Camry every three years since 1995. Two leases ago I switched from the 6 cyl. to the 4 cyl. as it finally is a decent car with enough pickup and performance. I get one oil change at 18 months, and get a car wash when I turn it in. I am always in a new car.
I always pay the exact same amount each month for my lease. I never have repair bills.
Regarding software, I would never rent it. In fact I haven't bought software in many years.