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and this is the reason I'm not in business
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Jun 28, 2012 06:20:46   #
dragonfist Loc: Stafford, N.Y.
 
If you were in business I am sure you would have had a signed contract with the , I use this term loosely, lady. Also you would have had a deposit, and I am sure would have charged much more. Then when she bugged you about delivery you could refer her to the contract as to the delivery date. Of course she never would have hired you because she is one of those people that are always seeing what they can get on the cheap. If she asks again while you are still there just tell her your camera equipment is in the shop for its annual service check.

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Jun 28, 2012 06:23:08   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
Oh man MWAC...I'm sorry to hear about this; clearly she is trying to take advantage of you.

I hope that this gets straigtened out. I know that I'd go nuts trying to deal with people like this.

Let us know if it gets resolved.

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Jun 28, 2012 06:34:33   #
mknmemries54 Loc: Missouri
 
BOY OH BOY!!!! Sorry you're having top go through this. Not fun. The bad part is you thought she was a friend! I think that's what hurts the most to me. Taking pictures for someone to get practice is what I do. (my granddaughter) But my son doesn't expect the world from me like she did.
What part of Florida are you going to???? Is that right, Florida? My son is in the service in Jacksonville, for now anyway. In a year it'll be Norfolk VA.

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Jun 28, 2012 06:38:19   #
ecobin Loc: Paoli, PA
 
MWAC wrote, "But this is the 3rd set of pictures I have taken for this neigbhbour in the last 6 months."

MWAC, you're too nice. I'd tell my neighbor to buy his/her own camera or play by my rules.

You have a good eye and your pictures are super.

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Jun 28, 2012 06:40:08   #
steve_stoneblossom Loc: Rhode Island, USA
 
As a former colleague always told me, no good deed goes unpunished.

MWAC, did I read right, your costs also included the CAKE?
Now your ruining 2 professions! ;)

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Jun 28, 2012 06:53:35   #
R'laine Loc: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand.
 
MWAC wrote:
Orville H. Brettman wrote:
Forty dollars? Seriously this is destroying the profession.


I'm destroying the profession of photograhy? Care to explain that to me?

* Telling one neighbour that I'm going to charge her $40 because I need to recover the cost of the cake, cd and my time isn't destorying the profession of photography.
* Building myself a portfolio incase I decided to hang a shingle isn't destorying the profession of photography (model releases have been signed) and using a reduced rate while I do so, isn't killing the profession of photography.
* Going rate for a photographer in my area is $50 for a session with 35 images on a CD (I live in a rural area just north of DFW), there are 2 professional photographers in our town, one charges $50 and the other charges less. Charging $40 for my area isn't killing the profession of photography, but I can tell you if and when I decieded to hang a shingle and take on clients, my session fee will be far from $40 as my work is miles a head of the two professionals in town.
* I don't market myself as a professional or even for hire, I currenlty only do "sessions" for friends as favours. Normally I don't even charge. Doing sessions for friends is far from killing the profession of photography.

so in short, I am not killing the profession of photography. People that market themselves as professionals and turn out poop work (no matter what they charge) are killing the profession of photography. (example: http://youarenotaphotographer.com/ )
quote=Orville H. Brettman Forty dollars? Seriousl... (show quote)


Well said! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Jun 28, 2012 06:56:06   #
skidooman Loc: Minnesota
 
Nobody starts at the top. Your neighbor has gotten quite a deal (2 free sessions) and an inexpensive one. You are building a portfolio, so often times one hand washes the other during this process. Your neighbor strikes me as a bit rude, but probably has become accustomed to your good nature and generosity, therefore sees nothing wrong with what she is asking. She should be happy with what you are providing her, and grateful. No doubt she has no idea how much work you put in. Nice photos.

As far as removing your name from the photos posted on fb, not a chance. No money, no cd either. Stick to your guns on this one.

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Jun 28, 2012 07:04:25   #
steve_stoneblossom Loc: Rhode Island, USA
 
I suggest you raise your fee- for HER ONLY- and insist on being paid in advance. Should rectify the problem.

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Jun 28, 2012 07:05:02   #
RonRhu Loc: Scotland, UK
 
MWAC wrote:
So I did this cake smash/1 year birthday session for a neighour ( http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-48218-1.html ) I charged her $40 for it. Lugged all my equipment, including backdrop and lights to her house and worked my butt off for 2 hours.

I posted 5 pictures on facebook late Monday evening. Tuesday I get a text from neigbhour... "I saw the pictures on facebook, a few things, can you please remove your name from them? You didn't remove the bruise from his head on the picture where he is standing up and he has a booger in one picture, when can we pick up the disk with all the pictures?"

ummmm let's see here... last time I posted pictures on facebook of your daugthers' prom you right clicked and saved them and then posted them on your facebook wall and tried to take credit for them.

Yes I missed the bruise in my rush to get a few pictures up for you to look at, it will be removed on the final copy of the images you get to print.

that is not a booger in the picture, that is cake icing... you know from the cake he smashed and was eating? sigh....

I only took these pictures on Sunday! No I do not have 25+ images fully edited and saved on a CD for you. I told you on Sunday, that they would not be ready for at least a week.

PLUS you still haven't paid me!

thanks for letting me vent.
So I did this cake smash/1 year birthday session f... (show quote)


Good on yer Girl !!!!

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Jun 28, 2012 07:08:29   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
Back when I was shooting weddings, in terms of dealing with the client, my worst was one I didn't charge ehough for. I let them talk me down and they were slow to pay. The best was the one for which I charged the most. That seemed to be the pattern with most of them. The lesson for me was, if you undervalue your work, people may not give you the respect you deserve.

Great shots, MWAC!

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Jun 28, 2012 07:09:58   #
RonRhu Loc: Scotland, UK
 
MWAC wrote:
Orville H. Brettman wrote:
MWAC:

I'm very sorry if my comments on pricing your work below minimum wage rates has upset you. I was in no way seeking to comment on the quality of the photographs you produce. My comment was simply meant to point out that $40 for two hours work is not a living wage, and that anytime someone is offered services at that rate it deprives those who are attempting to make a living by providing the same services from providing themselves with that living. Here's my argument in a nutshell. Most really successful businesses run at a net profit (that's what you get to keep to eat on after all expenses are deducted) of somewhere between 8-20 percent. So to make the math easy lets say your costs are low and you're making 20% net. That leaves You making $2 an hour net. In an 8 hour day that's a grand total of $16. Let's assume you're three times as good as most successful businesses. Then you're making $48/day. This assumes your so jammed packed with work that you are snapping away 8 hours a day. I'm sure you can see where this is going. it's just not a living wage.
MWAC: br br I'm very sorry if my comments on pric... (show quote)


Did you pay attention to my post?

I am not a business, don't take on clients and hardly ever ask people for money when I take their pictures. I usually do it all for FREE as it is my hobby and I love the practice. I asked for $40 those time because there were costs I had out of pocket.

Before you go off on how I am ruining the profession of photography, how $40 breaks down when running a business it is best to make sure you know what you are talking about and the audience you are trying to deliver the message too.

Once I deceide to open a business and get past the building of my portfoilo (at a discounted portfoilo building rate) my sessions fees will be set accordingly with my local market, talent level and desired profit margin.
quote=Orville H. Brettman MWAC: br br I'm very s... (show quote)


AGAIN, Go Girl, Go !!!! I don't blame you for ranting, at least there are no naughty words (Yet). I think you help a lot of us and I would ignore those that give caustic comments. keep on what you are doing MWAC.

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Jun 28, 2012 07:11:49   #
normanhall Loc: Leslie Missouri
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
Back when I was shooting weddings, in terms of dealing with the client, my worst was one I didn't charge ehough for. I let them talk me down and they were slow to pay. The best was the one for which I charged the most. That seemed to be the pattern with most of them. The lesson for me was, if you undervalue your work, people may not give you the respect you deserve.

Great shots, MWAC!


that is so true. At one time i was in the modular home business, and it never failed the one that go the "best" price caused the most trouble.

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Jun 28, 2012 07:18:10   #
oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey
 
MWAC wrote:
So I did this cake smash/1 year birthday session for a neighour ( http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-48218-1.html ) I charged her $40 for it. Lugged all my equipment, including backdrop and lights to her house and worked my butt off for 2 hours.

I posted 5 pictures on facebook late Monday evening. Tuesday I get a text from neigbhour... "I saw the pictures on facebook, a few things, can you please remove your name from them? You didn't remove the bruise from his head on the picture where he is standing up and he has a booger in one picture, when can we pick up the disk with all the pictures?"

ummmm let's see here... last time I posted pictures on facebook of your daugthers' prom you right clicked and saved them and then posted them on your facebook wall and tried to take credit for them.

Yes I missed the bruise in my rush to get a few pictures up for you to look at, it will be removed on the final copy of the images you get to print.

that is not a booger in the picture, that is cake icing... you know from the cake he smashed and was eating? sigh....

I only took these pictures on Sunday! No I do not have 25+ images fully edited and saved on a CD for you. I told you on Sunday, that they would not be ready for at least a week.

PLUS you still haven't paid me!

thanks for letting me vent.
So I did this cake smash/1 year birthday session f... (show quote)


Be nice, don't be like me! Explain that it is icing and that the bruise will be removed in the finial copy. Explain that you told her it would be a at least a week for the disc as the two of you had discussed.

Then politely embarrass her, publicly in front of her friends, by reminding her she still needs to pay you. Hopefully that will shut her up for a week.

Jim D

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Jun 28, 2012 07:24:15   #
Phocus Loc: Lakeland, Fl
 
MWAC wrote:
So I did this cake smash/1 year birthday session for a neighour ( http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-48218-1.html ) I charged her $40 for it. Lugged all my equipment, including backdrop and lights to her house and worked my butt off for 2 hours.

I posted 5 pictures on facebook late Monday evening. Tuesday I get a text from neigbhour... "I saw the pictures on facebook, a few things, can you please remove your name from them? You didn't remove the bruise from his head on the picture where he is standing up and he has a booger in one picture, when can we pick up the disk with all the pictures?"

ummmm let's see here... last time I posted pictures on facebook of your daugthers' prom you right clicked and saved them and then posted them on your facebook wall and tried to take credit for them.

Yes I missed the bruise in my rush to get a few pictures up for you to look at, it will be removed on the final copy of the images you get to print.

that is not a booger in the picture, that is cake icing... you know from the cake he smashed and was eating? sigh....

I only took these pictures on Sunday! No I do not have 25+ images fully edited and saved on a CD for you. I told you on Sunday, that they would not be ready for at least a week.

PLUS you still haven't paid me!

thanks for letting me vent.
So I did this cake smash/1 year birthday session f... (show quote)


Nice Photos!

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Jun 28, 2012 07:31:41   #
profpb Loc: Venice, Florida
 
I quit working so I could dedicate my life to photography.

This was an option because I'm now old and rich with 5 kids and a couple of wives gone.

Am I ever happy. Happiness is a goal and it can happen. I think my D800e is on its way. My credit card was charged after almost 5 months of patience. So earn and learn, but be happy. Thank you Nikon, for making me happy.

Its not about money its about doing what makes you happy.

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