MtnMan Loc: ID

Ah, I didn't read what he said right.

The point is that for wildlife he won't be as happy with it on a full frame as he would with it on the D7000...unless he gets a D8xx which also delivers almost 16MP on the DX area. The other full frame options only give about 10MP on the DX area, limiting cropping potential for wildlife. That's why a D5300 or 5500 is a better choice for wildlife: 24MP on the DX area.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Do you shoot wildlife with a 500mm or 600mm lens? I wouldn't trade my D800 for a crop camera nor would I shoot the D800 in crop mode. that's just silly. I use a 600mm F4 and often with a 1.4x - no issues, and way better IQ than possible with a crop camera for a whole lot of reasons, starting with better focusing, cropping in post processing, better low light/high ISO performance, etc etc etc.

MtnMan Loc: ID

Yes, all the time. I use the Sigma 150-500...now on my D5300. A perfect match.

I have also used it on my D800 but am not as satisfied with it there because I usually have to crop...even when on the D5300. You have to crop twice as much when using the D800 because you lose the DX crop factor. You are already down to just under 16MP when you get to the DX size. And with the other full frames you down to 10MP at the DX size.

Sometimes I get close enough to not have to crop and of course when I do with the D800 it is better. But it is rare.

MtnMan Loc: ID

Ah, I see you edited. I don't agree shooting with the D800 in crop mode is silly. I do it frequently when the situation is such that I know I'm going to crop well beyond that anyway. I shoot in RAW so the file size saving is substantial.

But shooting in crop mode isn't my point.

Sure, if he can afford a fixed 600mm that's better, and with a telextender he gets the full use of the 36 MP. But I think you're way beyond his budget (and mine) with that setup.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

:)

But before I got the 600 I used a 50-500mm which is not a great lens but still good enough to get decent images - I find shooting full frame and cropping in post much better than cropping in camera, especially when the subject is moving around a lot. I have also used a 200-400 with a 1.4x, and and 300 f2.8 with a 1.4x and 1.7x - all provide excellent image quality on the D800, and all better than the 50-500.

MtnMan Loc: ID

I use the Sigma 150-500. I understand that the Sigma 150-500 is significantly sharper than the 50-500. I still haven't found a comparison against the new 150-600s.

I should have said I "did" shoot with the D800 in crop mode sometimes. That was before I got the D5300. Now the Sigma 150-500 is attached to the D5300 and my 16-35 sits on the D800. That works perfectly when driving through places like Yellowstone...as I did last week.

Elk w 150-500 a 500mm on D5300

(Download)

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

My experience was different with the 150-500 - I found it less contrasty and lower in resolution at 450mm or thereabouts. Both improved at F8, but the 50-500 seemed to be still sharper, which is why I bought it 8 yrs ago. I just checked with DXO Mark and they finally added both to their evaluations, and they confirmed my experience though it is on a 610:

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Sigma-150-500mm-f5-6.3-APO-DG-OS-HSM-Canon-and-Nikon-mount-lens-review/Sigma-150-500mm-f5-6.3-APO-DG-OS-HSM-vs.-Sigma-50-500mm-f4.5-6.3-APO-DG-OS-HSM-mounted-on-Nikon-D610

My equipment at the time was a D200, then a D300, and up to a D700 and D3S and eventually a D800. Each time the image quality improved with the lens. The improvement in low light high ISO performance alone
easily justified all the body upgrades.

The best part is you can get a D800 for around $1600 used and slightly more for refurbed. It is so much more camera than a D610 in so many ways.

MtnMan Loc: ID

Thanks. Interesting and surprising result.

I'm looking forward to comparisons of the Sigma and Tamron 150-600s. I might be in the market for one of them for my wife in less than a year if our hoped for African trip firms up. Then I might be up for the Nikon 80-400 and 1.4 telextender. I'd deal with the extra weight and take the D800 on that one. Or maybe even up it to a D810 if there are some refurbs by than.

dylee8 Loc: South Florida

Thanks for all the suggestions. A lot to look at and study. Here's some thoughts:
1. I know DF is a great camera. But seems to be on the high end for my budget. Maybe I will rent it for a weekend and will find it irresistable as some of you mentioned.
2. 810 vs 750 vs 610. At this time I am partial to the 750. One problem I have with my D7000 is taking photos with odd angles. Doesn't happen often but when it does I really wanted a flip screen. 810 is bigger/heavier for travelling, also more expensive. Haven't checked out the 610 much and will do that.
3. Used --- not comfortable with ebay. Unless there are lenses I really need and overbudget I will go with new Camera
4. I plan to keep my D7000 and keep DX separate from FX.
5. Will look at lens suggestions. Have not thought about ultra-wide and will look at them

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

I "think" the 150-600 Tamron is better than the 150-500 - though I have not used them in a direct comparison on the same body. But I was impressed with the Tamron, especially at F8 and slightly less than 600mm.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

FYI - I have purchased over $25K worth of merchandise, photo, computer, bikes, car parts, and even a car on eBay - so far so good. I even purchased a 600mm F4 before the one I own now, and had to return it because there was an undisclosed issue with it. All the $$$ was refunded. But I can't spend your money for you. You and no one else has to be comfortable - but my experience has been good through the years.

Meganephron Loc: Fort Worth, TX

Totally disagree. FF gives you much less noise and greater low light performance. Yes, you'll need to slowly upgrade your glass but the trade off is worth it. Why used a hired point and shoot when you can finally have a real camera well within your budget. Forget the D800/810. The D750 is enough for 99% of photographers and is on sale now at $1996.00. I suggest the 28-300mm lens over the 24-1 mm. I have both so I know the relative value of each lens.

MtnMan Loc: ID

IMHO Nikon refurb cameras are better than new. The early failure issues have been taken care of by someone else. Each has been carefully checked by a Nikon tech...not as in a mass production line. They come in brand new condition with all the accessories.

The only shortcoming is that they come with a 90 day warranty vs. one year for a new one. But the major retailers up it to one year with their warranty for free (B&H) or for a few dollars (Adorama).

Plus you save several hundred dollars.

I'm on my fourth refurb. All still work flawlessly.

LarryFB Loc: Depends where our RV is parked

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

I have purchased a few refurbs. But the last one was my second D800, purchased about 14 months ago. The camera was as you say, "better than new" - and it had about 12 clicks on it. No doubt it was used as a demo camera by Nikon or a Nikon vendor.

I took it out for the first time last memorial day for the Jones Beach Airshow. When I looked at my pictures the following day, every shot I took with it was out of focus, regardless of what lens I put on the camera. 100-300 F4, 600 F4. 80-200 F2.8. And the degree of focus error was such that it was beyond fine tuning. However, in Live View, it was super tack-sharp. Took it to Nikon Melville, they had it for a week and told me it was fixed. I picked it up, went out to the parking lot and took some test shots of signs and birds with my 600. Still had the problem. They asked to keep the lens and the camera, and offered to refurb the lens as well - for $400. I suspected they were going to adjust the lens and said no thanks on the lens, because it was working fine with the other body. I specifically declined service on it. Another week went by and they called again. This time there was no difference between Live View and phase detect focusing. When I asked what they did, they said something about adjusting camera/lens communication in the body. So after 3 weeks I finally had a working camera body.

It could have happened with a new body, or a used body as well. The important takeaway here, is that the warranty is golden. And BTW, I asked about the 90 days, 20 of which was spent at their location, and they said that unofficially if I had a problem with it, they would take care of it at their discretion. Kudos to Nikon service in Melville.