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Pet peeve. It's not pronouced "off ten."
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Mar 4, 2015 10:03:35   #
Hammer Loc: London UK
 
Papa Joe wrote:
I'm afraid the fault lies on the shoulders of our 'Early English Fathers', who decided to put the "T" in that word, as many other words are messed-up because of similar methods of spelling. I've always been an advocate of the 'fonetic' (MY spelling), method but we're stuck with what we have I guess. It's so cold here one can easily contract NEWmonia! The BOARD of the company voted against the proposal but some of them were simply BORED, while on their way out moving the contractor's BOARD out of the way. They should have READ the instructions on how to exit.... I RED them! Oi Vey!!
I'm afraid the fault lies on the shoulders of our ... (show quote)


Hi,

Research seems that a lot of educational problems would be solved if we used "fonetics" in English. The language is so complex that a lot of children just can't cope. In Norway the language is completely "phonetic". Their children go to school
much later on in life that those in England and race ahead . They do not have the illiteracy problems that we have here .

Lets teach kids to communicate but make it so difficult that
they cant cope.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:04:53   #
NoSocks Loc: quonochontaug, rhode island
 
sundancer2004 wrote:
Regional accents are somewhat delightful to hear. They are not in error its just their accent. Often (t) is proper. Hearing someone proficient of the English Language should remind us of how lazy we have become.

I do believe much more alarming is the inability of persons of a certain age group and up who just can not spell.

ie: I put my hands around her waste"


While we're at it, you wrote "its just their accent." You used "its" incorrectly. The contraction for it is, is it's. Its without an apostrophe is the possessive form.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:05:28   #
EdJ0307 Loc: out west someplace
 
I sometimes wonder how we get "kernel" out of "colonel". The little French guy on Hogan's Heroes always called him "Ko-lo-nel Hogan". Made sense to me. I'm sure somebody here has the answer and will set me straight.

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2015 10:08:31   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
TucsonCoyote wrote:
That's right ba-hynd Nu-Yawk....right?? :roll:


I prefer-- Howya Doon. There are a lot of regionalisms People from NYCity say On Line.. Every where else In Line. People in the south offen say Nukuler. We have a language which in a state of constant flux.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:13:38   #
NoSocks Loc: quonochontaug, rhode island
 
sundancer2004 wrote:
Regional accents are somewhat delightful to hear. They are not in error its just their accent. Often (t) is proper. Hearing someone proficient of the English Language should remind us of how lazy we have become.

I do believe much more alarming is the inability of persons of a certain age group and up who just can not spell.

ie: I put my hands around her waste"


Another one, Sundancer. It's proficient IN the English language, not OF the English language.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:14:11   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
SteveR wrote:
It's "offen." I hear "off ten" on tv every time it's said. Don't English teachers, writers, editors, and directors of today know the correct pronunciation?


That's true, IF you're applying for a job as a radio or TV announcer, or If you are teaching standard American English to be used in business or academia.

However, those with a deeper understanding of language will argue quite effectively that regional pronunciations (and spellings and grammatical usages) do vary. CLASS pronunciations vary. Those whose primary language has mostly Latin roots will pronounce many English words differently.

In fact, our mother tongue is spoken quite differently "across the pond," and yet we understand the blokes when they talk about putting petrol in the lorry while the lasses are going to the loo.

An emotionally smart person will pronounce some words within the context of his or her situation, as an aid to conversational comfort, rather than look down on those who speak differently.

I'm a Midwesterner by birth (Michigan, of parents from central Illinois), and I have lived in the Carolinas since 1960. So I can fall into any number of Southern dialects at will, complete with their uniquely local grammar, syntax, and colloquialisms. I've traveled to over 40 of the 50 states, for work and vacations, so I've heard my share of other regional dialects, too.

When I was in college, I spent summers working for a textile machinery company, retro-fitting parts on British spinning frames in a mill in Enoree, SC. I quickly became the translator between the "Cracker Irish" locals and the "limeys" from Accrington and Oldham, England, and my cohort who grew up in Lahore, Pakistan. "Geeme dat dere ree-inch" became "'and me that spanneh" — and I passed the wrench.

While many regional dialects contain speech patterns that would make lesser professors lose their lunch on contact, I don't think many of them would argue against Noam Chomsky, when he says that each of the regionalisms has its own ingrained BRAIN rules of grammar, syntax, and usage.

While one class of people may consider the language of another to be "wrong", when linguists study both, they see the same KINDS of patterns and rules — They're just different. These rules are learned during the "imprinting" stages of our youth, from our parents and caregivers. As any teacher will tell you, they are VERY difficult habits to change!

A Southerner saying, "Dat don' make no nevuhmind!", has the same meaning amongst his peers as, "That does not make any difference", does to a New York network TV anchor. BOTH are correct in their contexts. One context is just a lot narrower than the other!

Let's be thankful that we can understand the English spoken by people from all over the world, whether it's grammatically correct, properly pronounced, or appropriately punctuated.

I'm not advocating for randomness or incorrectness... just a bit of tolerance. I personally can't stand it when people use the word IMPACT as a verb — When I grew up, it was ONLY a noun — But I'll never change it's current usage. To plead that it is incorrect, just because it was once accepted only as a noun, is futile. And to look down on someone for using it in place of the verb 'affect' is just rude.

My family and I have hosted three CIEE foreign exchange students over the years. One was a Chinese girl who barely understood English at the start of the year. Another was a German girl who spoke FIVE languages fluently (German, Russian, English, Spanish, and French). Her English as a third language was much better than most Americans'. The third was a Ukranian girl who spoke Russian, Ukranian, and very good English.

We learned a lot from those kids, especially about the differences and similarities in our cultures. They all understood that we speak in patterns, that even within one language, the patterns are local and regional, as well as national, and that all we have to do is explain the contexts to each other so we can communicate.

No one understood this better than our German "daughter". She now speaks EIGHT lanquages, having added Italian, Portuguese, and Dutch, and will finish her Masters program this summer.

Oh, yeah, she learned 'off ten' in her English classes in Germany. She also said, 'wegetable' instead of 'vegetable'... My daughter jokingly asked her if she wanted a 'wedgie', and she became very embarrassed when we explained what THAT was. She learned how to pronounce a proper English 'V' on the spot.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:18:21   #
Wellhiem Loc: Sunny England.
 
SteveR wrote:
It's "offen." I hear "off ten" on tv every time it's said. Don't English teachers, writers, editors, and directors of today know the correct pronunciation?


It's the difference between English and American. There's a T in it, it's pronounced off ten. You've already bastardised our language by getting rid of the u in colour and messing up the order of letters in centre, either make up your own language or stop pissing about with ours.

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2015 10:19:18   #
jimmya Loc: Phoenix
 
SteveR wrote:
It's "offen." I hear "off ten" on tv every time it's said. Don't English teachers, writers, editors, and directors of today know the correct pronunciation?


That's true, the "t" is silent. However how many errors do you find in every day English. Take for example that when someone is shooting video they're "filming"... dumb, even stupid but there it is. Happens all the time. Frustrating when we care about grammar and the correct meanings attached to the correct words.

Another would be Armageddon. When someone tells that
Armageddon is coming I answer it can't come because Armageddon is a place, not an event.

Oh well, I guess the only thing we can do is use the words correctly and let the rest who don't look dumb.

I remember a fellow, upon seeing my camera, asked if I do lots of "filming". I told him no because my camera does video not film. His response - the deer in the headlight look and a nearly silent "oh". Oh well.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:24:00   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Indi wrote:
I have one to add to the list. It's so FUN, When I was growing up everyone I knew, including teachers who taught us this, that there was a modifier before the word fun as in it's so MUCH fun.
I'm probably wrong.
And while I'm at it, how about Li-BR-ary, not Liberry.


Yeah, there's a BREW in February, but you can't tell anybody.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:24:17   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
burkphoto wrote:
That's true, IF you're applying for a job as a radio or TV announcer, or If you are teaching standard American English to be used in business or academia.

However, those with a deeper understanding of language will argue quite effectively that regional pronunciations (and spellings and grammatical usages) do vary. CLASS pronunciations vary. Those whose primary language has mostly Latin roots will pronounce many English words differently.

In fact, our mother tongue is spoken quite differently "across the pond," and yet we understand the blokes when they talk about putting petrol in the lorry while the lasses are going to the loo.

An emotionally smart person will pronounce some words within the context of his or her situation, as an aid to conversational comfort, rather than look down on those who speak differently.

I'm a Midwesterner by birth (Michigan, of parents from central Illinois), and I have lived in the Carolinas since 1960. So I can fall into any number of Southern dialects at will, complete with their uniquely local grammar, syntax, and colloquialisms. I've traveled to over 40 of the 50 states, for work and vacations, so I've heard my share of other regional dialects, too.

When I was in college, I spent summers working for a textile machinery company, retro-fitting parts on British spinning frames in a mill in Enoree, SC. I quickly became the translator between the "Cracker Irish" locals and the "limeys" from Accrington and Oldham, England, and my cohort who grew up in Lahore, Pakistan. "Geeme dat dere ree-inch" became "'and me that spanneh" — and I passed the wrench.

While many regional dialects contain speech patterns that would make lesser professors lose their lunch on contact, I don't think many of them would argue against Noam Chomsky, when he says that each of the regionalisms has its own ingrained BRAIN rules of grammar, syntax, and usage.

While one class of people may consider the language of another to be "wrong", when linguists study both, they see the same KINDS of patterns and rules — They're just different. These rules are learned during the "imprinting" stages of our youth, from our parents and caregivers. As any teacher will tell you, they are VERY difficult habits to change!

A Southerner saying, "Dat don' make no nevuhmind!", has the same meaning amongst his peers as, "That does not make any difference", does to a New York network TV anchor. BOTH are correct in their contexts. One context is just a lot narrower than the other!

Let's be thankful that we can understand the English spoken by people from all over the world, whether it's grammatically correct, properly pronounced, or appropriately punctuated.

I'm not advocating for randomness or incorrectness... just a bit of tolerance. I personally can't stand it when people use the word IMPACT as a verb — When I grew up, it was ONLY a noun — But I'll never change it's current usage. To plead that it is incorrect, just because it was once accepted only as a noun, is futile. And to look down on someone for using it in place of the verb 'affect' is just rude.

My family and I have hosted three CIEE foreign exchange students over the years. One was a Chinese girl who barely understood English at the start of the year. Another was a German girl who spoke FIVE languages fluently (German, Russian, English, Spanish, and French). Her English as a third language was much better than most Americans'. The third was a Ukranian girl who spoke Russian, Ukranian, and very good English.

We learned a lot from those kids, especially about the differences and similarities in our cultures. They all understood that we speak in patterns, that even within one language, the patterns are local and regional, as well as national, and that all we have to do is explain the contexts to each other so we can communicate.

No one understood this better than our German "daughter". She now speaks EIGHT lanquages, having added Italian, Portuguese, and Dutch, and will finish her Masters program this summer.

Oh, yeah, she learned 'off ten' in her English classes in Germany. She also said, 'wegetable' instead of 'vegetable'... My daughter jokingly asked her if she wanted a 'wedgie', and she became very embarrassed when we explained what THAT was. She learned how to pronounce a proper English 'V' on the spot.
That's true, IF you're applying for a job as a rad... (show quote)


Werry Vell put

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:26:09   #
Trentc Loc: Denver, CO
 
SteveR wrote:
Oh, heck, Dave.....let's ratch it up a notch. The Jews conspiracy to take down the twin towers on 9/11 is indicative among their other hijinks of just how offten they will attempt to subject their will upon other nations to rule the world.

I thought you might be missing LP by now.


Or more properly, "ratchet it up a notch." That kettle is black!! Says the pot.

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2015 10:28:39   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
jimmya wrote:
That's true, the "t" is silent. However how many errors do you find in every day English. Take for example that when someone is shooting video they're "filming"... dumb, even stupid but there it is. Happens all the time. Frustrating when we care about grammar and the correct meanings attached to the correct words.

Another would be Armageddon. When someone tells that
Armageddon is coming I answer it can't come because Armageddon is a place, not an event.

Oh well, I guess the only thing we can do is use the words correctly and let the rest who don't look dumb.

I remember a fellow, upon seeing my camera, asked if I do lots of "filming". I told him no because my camera does video not film. His response - the deer in the headlight look and a nearly silent "oh". Oh well.
That's true, the "t" is silent. However... (show quote)


Communication is the art of ensuring that two or more people hold a common thought in union. So long as we fill in the blanks enough to get the full story, I'm good to go.

I don't care whether you call it 'film making' or 'videography'. It COULD be both, because many modern "films" are made with 4K video cameras and edited entirely on computers. The finished 24P video can be projected as video, or printed to film and projected as film.

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:35:19   #
peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA
 
SteveR wrote:
I don't care what the heck accent they use as long as they don't pronounce the silent letters!!
As in Desss Moinessss (Iowa)?

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:44:43   #
bw79st Loc: New York City
 
willowpix wrote:
And if you listen for it, you will hear it, rather than here... sorry, couldn't help it.


Well let me axe you a question. How does that play a factor here?

Reply
Mar 4, 2015 10:46:14   #
soxrul Loc: ct
 
Fabfab, Yes that drives me crazy!

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