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Sep 29, 2014 13:00:20   #
romanticf16 Loc: Commerce Twp, MI
 
sixshooter wrote:
I'm not expecting a payback, and I do run my business as a pro.
Again it really wasn't about the "cost" of anything... I can well afford to cut a break to my friends and family members
I was looking for advice on how to handle this sort of extreme situation. I'm not new here, I've been shooting weddings for well over a decade. and I have never had a problem like this. I was just wondering if anyone else had any insight.


Get your payment in full. When you deliver the photos do not crop the other photographer out of any images he jumped into. If they complain show them the contract they signed.

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Sep 29, 2014 13:03:33   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
David Kay wrote:
Yes, I would think that it would be a contact violation. Plus it has been happening for years. The guest jumps in front of the photographer to get their shot of the bride coming down the aisle. I would think that the photog would mention this to the B&G when taking the original contract. This can happen and nothing will stop it and the b&g get a photo bombed pic. The only way I can think of to stop this is to make an announcement before the ceremony and again at the reception that no cameras or photos are allowed.
The B&G pay good money to have professional photos and do not need others ruining them. Every photobomb by a guest taking photos, I would take the photo and have it to show the B&G.
Yes, I would think that it would be a contact viol... (show quote)

This is a very complex issue.

A complete thread dedicated to it is currently ( I hope ) dying off right now.

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Sep 29, 2014 13:38:39   #
canon Lee
 
I had a similar situation where the wedding couple had paid the booking fee but gave excuses for not paying the balance. I kept the booking fee and did not deliver the photos as was stated in the contract. ( no tickie no shirtie ) It took the bride several months to offer to pay the balance. I told the bride the price was going to be more due to the fact that I had deleted all of the post editing files and had to re-edit them all over again and she would have to pay for my computer time. She paid the extra, apologized and even got me another client. I know how it is to have other people taking shots at your contracted wedding. In your case there is nothing you could do since, behind your back he set up with the bride and family that he would take the formals and reception pixs. That's the type of friends they are. I suggest that you move on and aren't angry. Give them the shots you took of the pre-ceremony & wedding ceremony, but due to breach of contract don't give them any of the reception. Give them photos of what you contracted for only. Thats my advice! You might even charge for the wasted time at the reception.

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Sep 29, 2014 14:03:28   #
BigGWells Loc: Olympia, WA
 
When you low ball something, someone is going get stabbed. You don't mix friends and business. A contract is a contract and always get a deposit.

And so on and so on, and scooby dooby do..

NEVER SHOOT WEDDINGS

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Sep 29, 2014 15:11:44   #
canon Lee
 
Let me give you some background about this wedding I did. The bride was Asian and during the practice night there were at least 6~10 family members with PRO CAMERAS, taking shots. I was forced back and they were stepping in front of me to take the shots. I told one of the photographers that he was getting in my way. The next morning when I showed up to take the pre-ceremony shots, the bride told me that she was offended that I let it be known that I was contracted to shoot this wedding. She told me that I ( and my 2nd shooter) would not be allowed inside the church for the ceremony. ( obviously the family wanted to do the church shoot) I had to fight for position for the after the ceremony shots at the church, but escorted the B&G to a secluded spot for formals. The reception was a joke. All hell broke out as it seemed that everyone had a camera. I took several shots and sat at a table for the rest of the reception. Yes I was ready to defend myself to the B&G reminding them of our conversation pertaining to the signed contract & me being primary photographer,but that conversation never happened. I was not upset, after all I got paid very well for that shoot. To me it is just doing business and has nothing to do with my ego. I don't think anything would have stopped the family from taking over the shoot, as a result I have not booked wedding like this .

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Sep 29, 2014 15:22:43   #
BigGWells Loc: Olympia, WA
 
One thing that I see is happening is people are being told, they are not allowed to bring in cell phones, point and shoots or any camera at all. Lord knows how we all know how the Asians are with their cameras....on auto...LOL

And once again. DO NOT SHOOT WEDDINGS

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Sep 29, 2014 15:48:40   #
David Kay Loc: Arlington Heights IL
 
BigGWells wrote:
One thing that I see is happening is people are being told, they are not allowed to bring in cell phones, point and shoots or any camera at all. Lord knows how we all know how the Asians are with their cameras....on auto...LOL

And once again. DO NOT SHOOT WEDDINGS


There is one thing you can resort to. In the contract where you have itsaid that you are the primary or better yet only photographer allowed to take photos at this event between the hours of XX and XX. If anyone interferes with your taking of the photos, you will leave the premises and there is no refund.

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Sep 29, 2014 15:53:11   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
BigGWells wrote:
One thing that I see is happening is people are being told, they are not allowed to bring in cell phones, point and shoots or any camera at all. Lord knows how we all know how the Asians are with their cameras....on auto...LOL

And once again. DO NOT SHOOT WEDDINGS

Recognizing the dangers of stereotypes I tell the following story:

Some time in the late 1970's my parents' (Presbyterian) church sponsored a refugee family from Cambodia. A few years later, one of the kids was married in a Catholic church, and my mother said we should go to be "supportive of the family" since it was presumed that they were "all alone here". Not!

What seemed like a small army of their friends and family showed up, all having relatively nice cameras. Although we were/are good protestants, we understood proper behavior in a Catholic church ... but they didn't. The priest was very low-key and "understanding", but throughout the ceremony the Cambodians were all over the place, and in order to get good shots, way too many ( yes, I know, just one would be"too many" ) of them were behind the altar rail, sitting on the baptismal font, etc) at any one time.

We always use that as the best "bad example" of behavior at a wedding.

As I have said multiple times, I believe that "no camera" rules are largely pointless in settings like this unless you are willing to expend a vast amount of effort enforcing it. Virtually everyone below the age of 30 (i.e., the prime age for friends of the couple) uses a cell phone to chronicle their lives, and a little thing like rules isn't going to crimp their style.

I believe the best hope is to begin the ceremony by reminding those present of a few rules of courtesy ... perhaps no flash (no big deal to smart phone users), where not to go, etc.

I might point out that this discussion is now wandering way away from issues in the original story.

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Sep 29, 2014 16:29:13   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
Life is way too short.
take the ceremony pics and charge for them.
Tell them you deleted the files ruined by their cousin AS PROFFESSIONALLY THEY WERE NO LONGER UP TO YOUR STANDARD OF SALEABLE WORK. archive in case of lawyers.

friends are often transient for lots of reasons, some beyond your control - except in this case.

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Sep 29, 2014 18:25:35   #
Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California
 
In my 12 years of doing wedding videography I've never been stiffed. However, there have been times where the balance was not paid at the wedding. I tell them that once the balance is paid in full their wedding raw footage will go in the edit cue. I'm usually working about 4 weddings behind but I don't even place their raw video footage in the edit cue until paid in full.

About 5 years ago I waited about a year for the couple to pay the balance. I had already completed the edit ........ after that one time I started the new policy of not starting on the edit until paid in full.

As of this last weekend we are requiring the balance to be paid in full at least 7 days prior to the wedding.

All you can do is learn by the experience and then alter how to do things in the future ......

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Sep 29, 2014 23:58:49   #
Doug B Loc: Edmonton Alberta
 
[quote=sixshooter]I may just need to vent here... But I had a situation at a wedding yesterday that has Never come up before and I'm not sure how to handle it.

I got caught in a similar situation many years ago. Even though I was upset I still did my best for my client/friend, I just moved on and marked it up to experience.

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Sep 30, 2014 01:37:35   #
sixshooter Loc: constitution state
 
Ed911 wrote:
When you discount, you devalue your services...cheap is unimportant. People respect what they have to pay for. Period.

I taught my children that there is a difference between "friendship" and "friendly acquaintances" posing as friends. You clients are most likely the later.

The idiot cousin might be a good photographer, but he's also a dirt-ball for getting in your way and spoiling your shots...make no bones about it.



And, what's worse, you found yourself in a virtual competition with this guy...you know his shots are going to be good, and he's not being paid. In fact, he may be getting better shots than you, and he's going to give them all to your clients for free, so that they can compare his FREE photos to your FOR FEE photos.

All of this because you discounted your services. If your clients had paid you a couple of grand, or more, then they would have known you were serious about your business and would have accorded you the respect that you deserved.

Since the cousin told them he was too expensive to be afforded by them, and then showed up and provided his expensive, out of their budget, class act, he to them, was more important than you...after all, you could be had for a few hundred dollars...but he, the cousin, was providing something they couldn't afford...all for free for them...what a guy.

Never, discount your services. Nerver. Either it's for free, or it's full price. And, then your know where you stand.

If you were doing this for free, you wouldn't be as pissed as you are. You thought you were doing them a favor and that it would super appreciated, but instead you find yourself disrespected. Bummer. The worst part is, that to top if off, you were "UNDERPAID."
When you discount, you devalue your services...che... (show quote)


"a few hundred dollars"??? EEEKKKK that would never happen. I charged them $1500 which is roughly half what my fee would have been for this wedding. And I hacked out the finished products that they would have received if paying full package price in order to keep my end at least somewhat profitable for my time and expertise.

And I don't think I would have been any less pissed if I was doing it for free... You're right about it turning into some kind of competition though. I was there to provide a service.. not to go all pro vs pro in some kind of jockeying for position shoot off.

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Sep 30, 2014 01:58:28   #
sixshooter Loc: constitution state
 
Thanks for sharing the Horror stories guys.. Its good to know I'm not alone.... Just lucky thus far.

Thanks for the laughs as well. The Asian wedding, and the one with the people sitting in the baptismal font..thats just hilarious!

I think most of us are extremely gracious about guests taking pictures at weddings... I've really never had an issue before that couldn't be handled with a "could you please wait until I've finished my shots and then I'll allow family/friends to get a few" or a tap on the shoulder and a hand gesture to schooch out of my way.

It was the sheer aggressiveness of this guy and the complete lack of regard that was so unbelievable. Its hard to imagine that someone could be so downright cocky. I must also be lucky that most of the other professional photographers in my area are such an affable bunch. I've finished up many a bridal show at the bar with my brethren comparing notes and discussing trends.

Thanks for the advice as well... I'm not even going to look at these images until I've been paid. And hopefully this can all be resolved without any more issues. Thank God wedding season is almost over. I'm exhausted.http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/compose_reply.jsp?topicnum=248043#

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Sep 30, 2014 03:33:17   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
Ignore; second post to follow. Sorry!

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Sep 30, 2014 03:46:23   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
sixshooter wrote:
Thanks for sharing the Horror stories guys.. Its good to know I'm not alone.... Just lucky thus far.

Thanks for the laughs as well. The Asian wedding, and the one with the people sitting in the baptismal font..thats just hilarious!

I think most of us are extremely gracious about guests taking pictures at weddings... I've really never had an issue before that couldn't be handled with a "could you please wait until I've finished my shots and then I'll allow family/friends to get a few" or a tap on the shoulder and a hand gesture to schooch out of my way.

It was the sheer aggressiveness of this guy and the complete lack of regard that was so unbelievable. Its hard to imagine that someone could be so downright cocky. I must also be lucky that most of the other professional photographers in my area are such an affable bunch. I've finished up many a bridal show at the bar with my brethren comparing notes and discussing trends.

Thanks for the advice as well... I'm not even going to look at these images until I've been paid. And hopefully this can all be resolved without any more issues. Thank God wedding season is almost over. I'm exhausted.
Thanks for sharing the Horror stories guys.. Its g... (show quote)

Know any divorce attorneys in town. If so, get one of their big envelopes and a couple of business cards. Send very grainy proofs, along with the cards in the attorneys envelope. When confronted, you got mixed up and used the envelope meant for another situation in which you were gathering evidence about an unfaithful spouse who was having an affair with her cousin; apologize deeply, blaming it all on the emotional strain of what happened at the wedding. Offer to make it up to the bride and groom by doing their next weddings at half price.

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