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4 X 5 Film Photography
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Feb 21, 2024 09:33:29   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Ysarex wrote:
Changing bags for sheet film are a problem. You need to get the film into the holder and the darkslide in place without depositing any of the thousands of specs of dust and lint and hair etc. that's in the bag on the film. This is complicated by the fact that it's really easy for sheet film to pick up an electrostatic charge. I have been forced on occasion to load 4x5 film in a changing bag and I have been badly bitten. I guess I should have vacuumed it out a few more times?

You say you have a bathroom with no windows -- you should be able to make that dark. Work at night and turn off lights outside the bathroom. Load the film there as well as the daylight tank.

Daylight sheet film processing tanks are a problem. I doubt if anyone is still trying to design one that allows for intermittent agitation while evenly developing the film without streaks. One that rolls with constant agitation may be OK. When I used to use one that was designed for intermittent agitation what I did was use that dark bathroom and place the tank in a tray with the lid off. Then using my gloved hand I would reach into the tank and grab the film holder and manually agitate it -- that worked.

Bathroom hint: Fighting dust on larger film surfaces is a hassle. If a dark bathroom has a shower then run the hot water in the shower for a few minutes and get some moisture into the air, then wait a few minutes to load or dry film. That moisture will help settle out the dust and you'll have cleaner film.

Best of luck to you.
Changing bags for sheet film are a problem. You ne... (show quote)


Thank you very much. Your suggestions are very helpful.

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Feb 21, 2024 09:39:12   #
mrozzoo Loc: Illinois
 
back in the late '60s through the 70's I worked for a Chicago school photography company ...during that time we (the staff of 50 shooters) used 4x5 for all the big groups (bands, sports teams, etc..) We used changing bags every day and sometimes several times a day. There was never a big fear of dust... shake the changing bag out and take the darn photo. We have loaded thousands of film holders on location... sometimes sitting on the floor, standing next to the stage, bleachers... tailgate of the truck... it's like changing a digital lens today.... use some care and make the image... PS. I worked 47 years as a school photographer.... was a great time... retired now for ten years I'm still photographing school events for the money. My friends have a disposable camera they plan on placing in my casket when the time comes. They say I'll figure out a way to send them some photos. lol.

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Feb 21, 2024 09:51:56   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
User ID wrote:
Why create a makeshift enlarger from your camera when decent real enlargers are free for the taking. Just gave away a perfect D2V with carriers and lenses. You may hafta drive a half day each way but its worth it. My D2V went by car from NY to Indiana.

If (big if) you can find one, there used to be enlarging conversion kits for Graflock backs. Harder to find but at least its reasonable to pack and ship, although probably not free for the taking.

While very patiently waiting for either of the above, just get a scanner. You might love it.
Why create a makeshift enlarger from your camera w... (show quote)


When I formerly had a Crown Graphic, I also had a Graflex lighted back. That was almost sixty years ago. It had a neon bulb and a reflector, diffuser system that produced even light. The light wasn't very bright so it took longer to get the proper exposure.

I have been looking at small LED panels and think I can rig a back that will work. I have also been researching scanners and ways to use a scanner that I have, using a lighted back.

The Epson V-600 doesn't have enough lighted area to cover a 4 X 5 area. One that does is very expensive.

Scan the negative, process it into a positive and print would be my preferred way. My interior bathroom could also be used, as needed for chemical process printmaking.

What seemed so easy in the 1950's and 60's seems much more complicated now. I am thinking about constructing a horizontal track enlarger, using the camera as the projector. It could be made of hardwood and would be easy to adjust, lightweight and portable.

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Feb 21, 2024 09:54:39   #
Jack56 Loc: Florida
 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/172903-REG/Harrison_1000_Pup_Film_Changing_Tent.html

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Feb 21, 2024 10:10:17   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Ysarex wrote:
Changing bags for sheet film are a problem. You need to get the film into the holder and the darkslide in place without depositing any of the thousands of specs of dust and lint and hair etc. that's in the bag on the film. This is complicated by the fact that it's really easy for sheet film to pick up an electrostatic charge. I have been forced on occasion to load 4x5 film in a changing bag and I have been badly bitten. I guess I should have vacuumed it out a few more times?

You say you have a bathroom with no windows -- you should be able to make that dark. Work at night and turn off lights outside the bathroom. Load the film there as well as the daylight tank.

Daylight sheet film processing tanks are a problem. I doubt if anyone is still trying to design one that allows for intermittent agitation while evenly developing the film without streaks. One that rolls with constant agitation may be OK. When I used to use one that was designed for intermittent agitation what I did was use that dark bathroom and place the tank in a tray with the lid off. Then using my gloved hand I would reach into the tank and grab the film holder and manually agitate it -- that worked.

Bathroom hint: Fighting dust on larger film surfaces is a hassle. If a dark bathroom has a shower then run the hot water in the shower for a few minutes and get some moisture into the air, then wait a few minutes to load or dry film. That moisture will help settle out the dust and you'll have cleaner film.

Best of luck to you.
Changing bags for sheet film are a problem. You ne... (show quote)


Thank you! I really appreciate your suggestions.

Reply
Feb 21, 2024 10:17:06   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
dbrugger25 wrote:
When I was a teen, I owned Graphex Crown Graphic 4 X 5 camera. I loved it because of the razor sharp black and white images and the versatility. Later, I traded it in for a Canon Pellix 35mm. BIG MISTAKE. Canon is a great brand buth the Pellix had to be one of the worst cameras on modern history.

I always wished I still had the Crown Graphic.

Well. I finally bought a used one on ebay and it should arrive in a few days. It is the only one I have seen that appears to be in very good condition.

I can calibrate the shutter using a solar cell and an oscilloscope or, at least document any shutter error.

Next, since I no longer have a darkroom, I will need a lightproof bag for loading the film and loading a lightproof developing tank. Can anyone give me advice about the best lightproof bag.

Next, I have two choices for making prints. I can scan the negatives to a digital file and make prints using Photoshop; or, I can make a lighted back for the camera and make prints the old fashioned way in developing solutions. I have a bathroom with no outside windows that I can set-up as a makeshift print darkroom.

I guess I am looking for suggestions.

Is there an Ugly Hedgehog section devoted to film photography. I also have a Rolleiflex twin lens that I will be using.

I am 79 years old and am on a nostalgia kick; trying to relive my long-lost youth. I guess I have too much free time in my life.
When I was a teen, I owned Graphex Crown Graphic 4... (show quote)


Click the All Sections button at the bottom of the page to go to a list of all sections of UHH. YES, there is a section on film photography.

Scanning 4x5 film is probably the best way to use it in 2024. You can order professional drum scans, or do it yourself on an Epson D850 flatbed scanner.

OR, you can backlight your film with a video LED light panel diffused through thick milk Plexiglass or Perspex, and photograph it with a macro lens. If you photograph negatives, you can convert them to positives manually (a royal pain in the ass!), or you can use the Negative Lab Pro plug-in for Lightroom Classic, which is absolutely excellent.

The one thing to consider is knowledge and equipment. For a digital post production workflow, you really need a fast computer, good graphic arts monitor, a calibration kit for the monitor (usually a colorimeter and software or spectrophotometer and software from Datacolor or Calibrite), and a software suite such as the Adobe Photography Plan. If you print your own, you'll want a PHOTO grade printer from Canon or Epson.

As for a changing bag and other darkroom gear, both B&H (https://www.bhphotovideo.com) and Adorama (https://www.Adorama.com) have darkroom specialists who can recommend the best of current offerings.

If you are curious about "camera scanning," Here's my take on it, and a few samples of what it can do with just 35mm film. To scan 4x5, I'd want a full frame digital camera with 60+ MP resolution, and a really good macro lens, although a Lumix G9 II would do quite well in high resolution mode. The samples below were made with a 16MP camera.

Camera Scanning.pdf opens in your favorite PDF reader.
Attached file:
(Download)

10-4 Pickup, photographed on H&W Control VTE Ultra pan film (35mm) ©1976 Bill Burkholder
10-4 Pickup, photographed on H&W Control VTE Ultra...
(Download)

Charleston, SC, Graveyard, ©1976 Bill Burkholder. Tri-X film.
Charleston, SC, Graveyard, ©1976 Bill Burkholder. ...
(Download)

Tiki Bar, Disney, ©1983 Bill Burkholder. Kodachrome 64 film.
Tiki Bar, Disney, ©1983 Bill Burkholder. Kodachrom...
(Download)

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Feb 21, 2024 10:39:10   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Thank you for the information. If I use a rectangular daylight processing tank I will need to find a way to agitate it without causing bubbles. Perhaps a slight rocking motion will work.

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Feb 21, 2024 10:49:44   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
MrPhotog wrote:
1) You may not need a changing bag. Since you have a bathroom with no windows it is much easier to just cover the edges of the doorway to make it light-tight. Use that for loading your film holders, and then later go back in to unload the exposed film and put it into a daylight developing tank.

Once the film is in the tank you can process the film under normal room light.

2) Your bathroom probably has an exhaust fan and hot and cold running water. I’d get a plastic bucket or something similar, with a flat bottom, and do my developing in that, rather than trying to get the developing tank to sit flat in my bathroom sink. Drips and splashes stay in the bucket until I flush them down the drain. If you can fit a small table in there, you’ll have a tiny, but functional workspace. That table might fit in a bathtub or shower stall.

3) 4x5 enlargers are rather expensive these days, mostly due to shipping costs. Instead of that, look for a ‘Graflarger back’. Remove the ground glass on your Crown Graphic and insert this device instead.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364122263519?

It is a fluorescent light and negative carrier which goes on the camera. The ballast and transformer are in a second ( heavier) unit that sits on the table. With the camera on a copy stand you have an enlarger. You can fabricate something similar with an LED screen and a negative carrier from a Besseler or Omega enlarger the negative carriers are aluminum and can be cut down to a smaller size. Either fluorescent or LED will run at a much cooler physical temperature than an incandescent bulb, but the color temperature of either of these is not compatible with multigrade enlarging paper.

If you want to fabricate an incandescent ‘head’ for your camera/enlarger I’d suggest starting with a large clamp light and reflector from a hardware store, and a PH 211 or PH212 enlarger bulb from B&H photo. The smaller 75 watt bulb should be plenty bright, and you can use this with the polycontrast/multicontrast filters and photopaper sold by Ilford.

4) With black and white film, any of these light sources make nice backlights for copying the negative onto a digital camera. If you use color film then use either a tungsten bulb or an LED panel which has a very high CRI ( Color Rendering Index) of 95 or higher. The graflarger back isn’t meant for color.

5) Look for a 120 roll film back for your press camera. These come in 3 sizes: 6x6 (12 exposures), 6x7 (10 exposures), and 6x9 cm (8 exposures per roll. You can load a fresh roll of film in daylight and process it alongside the film from your Rollei.

6) Yes. UHH has both a film area and a Black and white section. The latter deals with both film and digital originals.

Enjoy your return to the darkroom
1) You may not need a changing bag. Since you have... (show quote)


Thank you for the Ebay link. I bought it. Ehen I had my prior Crown Graphic, I had the lighted back and it worked perfectly. I gave away all my darkroom equipment fifty years ago because I had no suitable location for a darkroom and I had switched to color photos.

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Feb 21, 2024 10:51:05   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
HRPufnstuf wrote:
I have a Speed Graphic (flashbulb sync only) and a Crown Graphic (that also has X sync). I use both occasionally.
Load and unload your film backs in absolute darkness, but I've had no issues using a changing bag. Daylight tank for developing, gently agitate 10-15 seconds every minute for no streaks.
I scan the negatives at 3600 DPI on an Epson scanner, and Digital ICE removes ALL the dust spots.
Transparencies get mailed to a commercial lab for processing only. I scan them myself when they are returned.
I have a Speed Graphic (flashbulb sync only) and a... (show quote)


Thank you.

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Feb 21, 2024 11:03:24   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
dbrugger25 wrote:
Thank you for the information. If I use a rectangular daylight processing tank I will need to find a way to agitate it without causing bubbles. Perhaps a slight rocking motion will work.


Get on YouTube and search for videos about 4x5 film developing. I'm sure there is a wealth of information.

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Feb 21, 2024 11:07:03   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Thank you!

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Feb 21, 2024 11:07:37   #
cigar dude Loc: South Central MA
 
Check these guys out. They have a unique developing tank!!!!!!
https://shop.stearmanpress.com/products/rev-4-sp-445-compact-4x5-film-processing-system

Good Luck
Dave

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Feb 21, 2024 11:09:41   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
cigar dude wrote:
Check these guys out. They have a unique developing tank!!!!!!
https://shop.stearmanpress.com/products/rev-4-sp-445-compact-4x5-film-processing-system

Good Luck
Dave


Thank you. This is an exciting venture.

Reply
Feb 21, 2024 12:34:27   #
GreenReaper
 
dbrugger25 wrote:
When I was a teen, I owned Graphex Crown Graphic 4 X 5 camera. I loved it because of the razor sharp black and white images and the versatility. Later, I traded it in for a Canon Pellix 35mm. BIG MISTAKE. Canon is a great brand buth the Pellix had to be one of the worst cameras on modern history.

I always wished I still had the Crown Graphic.

Well. I finally bought a used one on ebay and it should arrive in a few days. It is the only one I have seen that appears to be in very good condition.

I can calibrate the shutter using a solar cell and an oscilloscope or, at least document any shutter error.

Next, since I no longer have a darkroom, I will need a lightproof bag for loading the film and loading a lightproof developing tank. Can anyone give me advice about the best lightproof bag.

Next, I have two choices for making prints. I can scan the negatives to a digital file and make prints using Photoshop; or, I can make a lighted back for the camera and make prints the old fashioned way in developing solutions. I have a bathroom with no outside windows that I can set-up as a makeshift print darkroom.

I guess I am looking for suggestions.

Is there an Ugly Hedgehog section devoted to film photography. I also have a Rolleiflex twin lens that I will be using.

I am 79 years old and am on a nostalgia kick; trying to relive my long-lost youth. I guess I have too much free time in my life.
When I was a teen, I owned Graphex Crown Graphic 4... (show quote)


I can understand wanting to start using 4x5 film. Here are some of my experiences. I used a changing for years and still have two. Dust was never a problem,besides, photoshop makes it easy to get rid of spots. As for processing the film. I have used a 120 film processing tank with a sheet film holder. The last time I checked these can more than likely be found on Ebay, or do an internet search for Jobo products, no telling what will show up. I have digitized all my 4x5 and 120 negs using my digital camera and a makeshift light box. It is best to keep things as "square" as possible when copying your negs. I copied mine through the base side just so I wouldn't have remember to do a horizontal flip to get it right. This will most likely draw a lot of negative comments pun not intended), but these are some of things I've done and they have worked. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact me. Happy shooting!

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Feb 21, 2024 12:48:41   #
BurghByrd Loc: Pittsburgh
 
Yes, there is a section devoted to film photography. Click the "Home" button at the top and then the "All Topics" button to get a complete listing of the sections available one of which is Film Photography. There are others that may also be of assistance.

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