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Do you really need a full-frame camera?
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Feb 11, 2023 11:41:52   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
Ava'sPapa wrote:
I just came back from my 3 mile walk which gave me time to reflect on all of this. Of all the cameras that I've owned, my favorite was my Olympus OM 10 (around '78 or so) which I purchased right after I sold my Yaschica Electro 35 (another favorite) which I purchased at the BX overseas in 1969. Cameras are like to cars to me. How many of us have said, "boy I wish I still had my '65 (insert car name here)?!
But I will add that I do like my R6 II quite a bit.

My first car I bought for $700 at age 17, was a used 68 Camaro Rally Sport with a 327 engine, an automatic Hemi shifter in the floor, bucket seats and hideaway headlights. Sometimes I still dream about cruising the highways around Atlanta in that baby!

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Feb 11, 2023 11:58:58   #
terryMc Loc: Arizona's White Mountains
 
CHG_CANON wrote:

I only own what I actively shoot, as in, I bring a perspective of using cameras rather than collecting them.


When I read the posts from those who say something like "Trust me, I know: I own the D100, D200, D300, D330A, 500, 700, D1, D2, D3 D4,5,6,7 and the EOS 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 6IIi and seven Sonys (4 of the same bodies) and 436 lenses that cover all the focal ranges 42 times;" I move on very quickly. I have seen people bragging about owning 3 Z9s. I have seen people post that they go "into the field" with 4 bodies mounted with different lenses.

Jeez, whatever turns yer crank, y'know? but I'm going to be hard to convince that all that makes better pictures.

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Feb 11, 2023 12:06:06   #
Ava'sPapa Loc: Cheshire, Ct.
 
mikeroetex wrote:
My first car I bought for $700 at age 17, was a used 68 Camaro Rally Sport with a 327 engine, an automatic Hemi shifter in the floor, bucket seats and hideaway headlights. Sometimes I still dream about cruising the highways around Atlanta in that baby!


I KNOW that you wish you still had that one!! I wish I had it. I wanted a green '67 SS/RS 4 spd. from a dealer right outside the base. The salesman was writing up the PO when another salesman came in and said he had sold it. This was in 1969. As a consolation prize to myself I bought a '65 442 in San Francisco for $1500. Forest green with white interior, redline tires and a 4 speed. As Bob Hope said, "thanks for the memories".

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Feb 11, 2023 13:21:09   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Jimmy T wrote:
Paul, thank you for such an insightful posting, not to mention the beautiful examples.


Thank you Jimmy!

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Feb 12, 2023 07:00:41   #
junglejim1949 Loc: Sacramento,CA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
There was a post about the EOS XTi recently, a camera that was my first DSLR. I purchased that 10MP Rebel body in Dec 2006, so I'm approaching 20 years in digital overall. To create this retrospective post, I reached into the LR catalog looking for similar images to ask the question: can you see the difference?

Wrigley Building by Paul Sager, on Flickr


Wrigley Building


I'm unsure if I have UHH to thank for the impetus to change from an XTi to an EOS 7D, before then changing again to the current EOS 5DIII. The following series of image pairs will tend to be at least 10 years apart. The two bees compare a 100mm macro with a 180mm macro.

Bee and flower


Coneflower visitor


The exposure details and lenses of all the images are available from Flickr, using the URL links that are the image titles. I couldn't find any images that used the same lens on both cameras, for similar images. The best I could find was similar subjects and views, in a landscape format.

Buckingham Fountain


Buckingham Fountain


If you "need" a new camera, there's always a question of: why? Maybe you need more resolution. Maybe you need more frames per second. Maybe you need more external controls. Maybe better noise performance? Maybe better Auto Focus performance? But, what if it's really just that you need a better lens? And therefore, maybe, you don't really need more pixels or more controls or more frames or NR or AF performance?

Chicago


Chicago Skyline - Willis Tower


I wanted to just compare a 10MP cropped sensor to a 22MP full-frame, but the sequence of agave, below, adds the wrinkle of a circa 1987 f/1.8 prime against a nearly as old film-era zoom and the newest IS enabled zoom. Even though all these images are down-sized to 2048-pixels on the wide side (and linked as 1600px), I think for most of the images, one can see the resolution differences of the two / three cameras.

United States Botanic Garden


DeGrazia Gallery in the Sun


Wesley Bolin Memorial Park


Of these final two images, I think the Rebel actually wins the 1 to 1. All the images in this post were processed in LR6. The XTi images are a mixture of JPEG files and RAW against the RAW files of the EOS 7D and 5DIII. The bottom image suffers a bit from the 2x extender added to the 500mm L prime. It looks good, but I think there's more details in the upclose of the XTi at 52mm than the more distant shot from the effective 700mm of the prime.

United States Botanic Garden


Swamp Rose Mallow


Hopefully, these examples cause some serious questions about: Is it the camera, the software, the photographer or the lens?

Remember, the longer you read UHH, the more expensive it gets. Try not to get caught up in the hype.
There was a post about the EOS XTi recently, a cam... (show quote)



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Feb 12, 2023 07:38:27   #
ecobin Loc: Paoli, PA
 
Need versus want applies to most hobbies, and want always wins.

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Feb 12, 2023 08:23:58   #
yssirk123 Loc: New Jersey
 
mikeroetex wrote:
Great photos. I jumped back in to photography as a hobby in 2004 after setting film aside for 25 years. I still have first Nikon D40 which I gave my wife when I "upgraded." Coincidentally, I took it out for spin recently (the battery actually charged up) and it worked great with its whopping 6mp.

I have since owned a D7100 (my first "serious" camera) but traded for a D7200 for better low light and deeper buffer. Then came the D500 with 10fps and a perfect buffer and everything I needed for sports/wildlife and astro with my new backup, a used D750. I could still be using that combo for life, but have now gone mirrorless and chose Nikon Z9 over Sony A1. And I'm fully ready to trade the Z9 fo a Z6iii orZ90 that's smaller and less bulky with a 33-45mp sensor, 20-30 fps and the continually improving AF.

I mention all this because photograhy is my hobby . I don't buy because of need, mainly because every other aspect of my life is based on need. I have a modest afforable home but could buy bigger. I drive a used truck, not a BMW. We have a used camper that I paid cash for. I haven't needed to buy dress shoes for 20 years and business attire is only replaced when threads are bare or the waistline demands a bigger size.

So do I go a little crazy buying the latest and greatest cameras and new lenses... sure. It's my treat to myself. I will probably quit buying when I fully retire in 2 years. But make no mistake, UHH has nothing to do with my purchase decisions. I was doing this before I knew UHH existed. Of course, my "hobby" then was golf and I could never resist a new driver!

P.S. I've only bought new twice in 19 years. The D40 and the Z9 + lenses. Thanks to MPB, ebay and Robert's Camera.
Great photos. I jumped back in to photography as ... (show quote)



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Feb 12, 2023 09:51:06   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Thank you Jim, Elliott, Bill!

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Feb 12, 2023 10:54:00   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
There was a post about the EOS XTi recently, a camera that was my first DSLR. I purchased that 10MP Rebel body in Dec 2006, so I'm approaching 20 years in digital overall. To create this retrospective post, I reached into the LR catalog looking for similar images to ask the question: can you see the difference?

Wrigley Building by Paul Sager, on Flickr


Wrigley Building


I'm unsure if I have UHH to thank for the impetus to change from an XTi to an EOS 7D, before then changing again to the current EOS 5DIII. The following series of image pairs will tend to be at least 10 years apart. The two bees compare a 100mm macro with a 180mm macro.

Bee and flower


Coneflower visitor


The exposure details and lenses of all the images are available from Flickr, using the URL links that are the image titles. I couldn't find any images that used the same lens on both cameras, for similar images. The best I could find was similar subjects and views, in a landscape format.

Buckingham Fountain


Buckingham Fountain


If you "need" a new camera, there's always a question of: why? Maybe you need more resolution. Maybe you need more frames per second. Maybe you need more external controls. Maybe better noise performance? Maybe better Auto Focus performance? But, what if it's really just that you need a better lens? And therefore, maybe, you don't really need more pixels or more controls or more frames or NR or AF performance?

Chicago


Chicago Skyline - Willis Tower


I wanted to just compare a 10MP cropped sensor to a 22MP full-frame, but the sequence of agave, below, adds the wrinkle of a circa 1987 f/1.8 prime against a nearly as old film-era zoom and the newest IS enabled zoom. Even though all these images are down-sized to 2048-pixels on the wide side (and linked as 1600px), I think for most of the images, one can see the resolution differences of the two / three cameras.

United States Botanic Garden


DeGrazia Gallery in the Sun


Wesley Bolin Memorial Park


Of these final two images, I think the Rebel actually wins the 1 to 1. All the images in this post were processed in LR6. The XTi images are a mixture of JPEG files and RAW against the RAW files of the EOS 7D and 5DIII. The bottom image suffers a bit from the 2x extender added to the 500mm L prime. It looks good, but I think there's more details in the upclose of the XTi at 52mm than the more distant shot from the effective 700mm of the prime.

United States Botanic Garden


Swamp Rose Mallow


Hopefully, these examples cause some serious questions about: Is it the camera, the software, the photographer or the lens?

Remember, the longer you read UHH, the more expensive it gets. Try not to get caught up in the hype.
There was a post about the EOS XTi recently, a cam... (show quote)

In answer to the title, "Of course you do!"

bwa

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Feb 12, 2023 11:12:32   #
Hereford Loc: Palm Coast, FL
 
My first DSLR was a Canon Rebel XSi (450D) with 12mp. I took some of my best photos with that camera that have been hard to equal with my later higher MP cameras. I think it had a lot to do with the large micron photo sites the camera sensor had that reduced noise.

I still have that camera, but haven't used it in several years and probably never will again.

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Feb 12, 2023 11:24:35   #
badapple Loc: Twin Lake, Michigan
 
One of the best conversations on uhh I’ve read. Very thought provoking with something for everyone.

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Feb 12, 2023 11:52:26   #
shieldsadvert
 
One of the best posts I've read in years and, as usual, I can depend on your extensive knowledge to be true.
I have used my photographic skills both professionally and as an enthusiast for more than 50 years and have always believed in buying the best (Zeiss) lenses. I am still using my 8 year old Sony NEX-6 16 MP camera body and shoot 80% of my photos with a 16-70 (aps) Zeiss lens although I can afford any camera equipment now available.
I will only upgrade when Sony produces an aps body with significantly increased IBIS and latitude and a better viewfinder as I do mostly landscape and travel photography and post to my Smugmug site. Thanks for your posts.

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Feb 12, 2023 12:11:38   #
mikenolan Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
 
The images in the lead post demonstrate once again that the most important part of a camera is the person holding it.

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Feb 12, 2023 12:14:38   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Hereford wrote:
My first DSLR was a Canon Rebel XSi (450D) with 12mp. I took some of my best photos with that camera that have been hard to equal with my later higher MP cameras. I think it had a lot to do with the large micron photo sites the camera sensor had that reduced noise.

I still have that camera, but haven't used it in several years and probably never will again.


Thank you Hereford! I have an opinion that the 'Great MegaPixel Wars' that raged between Nikon and Canon in the 16- to 18MP range produced denser sensors that didn't perform as well as the preceding 10- and 12MP models. Both companies ironed out the noise issues by the time they landed on the near universal 24MP versions now in vogue.

Regarding best and favorite images and older cameras, I wonder if 'newness' of the tool was part of the impact? Did digital let you get pictures at a frequency that didn't exist for film? Did digital let you take pictures in situations you'd never attempted due to the limitations of film? Did near universal zoom lenses too let you shoot in new situations? Did you shoot more in Auto, because you didn't think about the complexity of exposure back then, instead just worrying about the magic of the moment?

Myself, I can see in the first few years of digital with the XTi, a lot of experiments, stuff now I'd have to think and plan in approaching, where then, I was just trying on a whim, aka playing.

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Feb 12, 2023 12:14:42   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
shieldsadvert wrote:
One of the best posts I've read in years and, as usual, I can depend on your extensive knowledge to be true.
I have used my photographic skills both professionally and as an enthusiast for more than 50 years and have always believed in buying the best (Zeiss) lenses. I am still using my 8 year old Sony NEX-6 16 MP camera body and shoot 80% of my photos with a 16-70 (aps) Zeiss lens although I can afford any camera equipment now available.
I will only upgrade when Sony produces an aps body with significantly increased IBIS and latitude and a better viewfinder as I do mostly landscape and travel photography and post to my Smugmug site. Thanks for your posts.
One of the best posts I've read in years and, as u... (show quote)


Thank you shieldsadvert! After yesterday's post, I found still more relevant pairings to post tomorrow. Stay tuned. Images, where again, the full-frame is not the clear winner, nor even the preferred result.

REF: IBIS / IS / VR / VC / etc - this is some of the best photography developments since digital sensors. I'm not so old yet, I can't hold a camera steady. But, I sure do like the 'insurance' back-up of stabilization for all my lenses all the time.

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