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Mirrorless and DSLR
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Aug 21, 2022 12:25:58   #
JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA
 
rlv567 wrote:
I know all that. I was wondering – only for mirrorless – whether the RAW file still is pure data, regardless of what appears on the camera viewfinder/screen as changes are made. If it is still just pure data, then there would be no advantage in being able to see an adjusted picture (which would be jpg only) prior to taking the shot – unless you were going only for jpg!!! And if it were not pure data, then there would be no advantage in shooting RAW in a mirrorless camera – where in essence you would be doing your postprocessing on a tiny camera screen, and lacking so many “bells and whistles”???

Loren – in Beautiful Baguio City
I know all that. I was wondering – only for mirro... (show quote)


It all depends on what you are changing. When you look at the LCD or EVF on a mirrorless, you can decide to adjust exposure up or down due to unique lighting conditions. On a mirrorless camera, you see what the image is going to look like before you take the picture, and can see if this would be something you might want to do. This is a change that affects what's in the RAW file.

Other things you may change such as white balance will affect what WB setting the camera records was used, and that change will also affect the embedded JPEG. But the RAW data is not really changed. And when you post process, you are still free to change the WB again.

So, the answer has to be "It Depends Upon What You Are Changing On Whether the RAW Data Changes Or Not."

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Aug 21, 2022 12:36:52   #
tennis2618
 
JeffL, I have friends who are professional photographers who I have met on several Lindblad National Geographic trips and several serious amateur friends in my photography club in South Carolina. Many of these people have moved to mirrorless cameras. So they were good photographers to start with and they recently switched to good mirrorless. (I still use Nikon 800 and 850 with lots of glass, so I have not followed them. But I will say I saw an immediate and substantial improvement in their pictures after their change. They are getting spectacular sharpness and color rendition that makes me jealous and they all say it is the rendition of the scene in the viewfinder that is behind this--once they learned how to adjust based on what was shown in the viewfinder before taking the picture.

I'd guess each of its should try it and we would love it.

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Aug 21, 2022 12:40:17   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
Longshadow wrote:
It would appear to simply be a different method of image acquisition to me.


Roger that!

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Aug 21, 2022 12:47:59   #
MJPerini
 
[quote=JeffL]There is one consideration that is rarely mentioned in these mirrorless vs. DSLR debates: investment.

Investment, really has nothing to do with the comparison. Technology moves on independently of all of us and our abilities as photographers. Technology never makes you a better photographer , but can make some things easier, faster or better in some way.
If you are happy with the equipment you own and it produces the results you want, you should feel zero pressure to change. The D850 is one of the best cameras ever made, if you went looking for something you cannot do with that camera you would be hard pressed to find something.
If you decide that some of the features of Mirrorless better suit your style then add a body, if you are happy with your D850 use it and don't worry.
There will ALWAYS be something new.

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Aug 21, 2022 12:56:18   #
Photec
 
When going from a DSLR to Mirrorless, you do lose something. In a DSLR you have an electro-mechanical shutter that has a mechanical lifespan, and a mechanical mirror with many moving parts that wear out over the lifetime of your camera along a sizable pentaprism that is no longer needed. The Mirrorless camera takes the image from the lens directly to the image sensor, sends it to the electronic viewfinder and/or LCD directly thru non-moving electronic components, (except for the shutter button), thru the CPU to your storage card. That means you no longer have any highly sensitive and fragile electro-mechanical components in a slightly smaller box.

So, according to USPS, I am going to receive my Z9 tomorrow. That does not mean I am giving up my beloved D850, at this point it will likely be in my coffin when I die unless one of my grandchildren talk me out of it.

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Aug 21, 2022 13:05:30   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
I think this was covered before in the many "DSLR vs. Mirrorless" debate threads. Yes, a DSLR or SLR will give you essentially a real time speed of light preview of the image, whereas the EVF image of course is a tiny monitor inside the camera of what the sensor sees**. A mirrorless camera is basically a video cam. You are basically a videographer if you are taking stills with a mirrorless - you're just picking out the frames. There are certain pros vs the few cons of mirrorless....one is exposure preview - that is something impossible to do with a DSLR. The tiny bit of lag/blackout is inconsequential in the vast number of use cases, and some recent models (like the Z9 or high end Sony's) have brought that down to practically nil. With a DSLR low light can be challenging, but with mirrorless that is a piece of cake, plus you are getting an accurate exposure preview. The art of photography is not lost, the photographer just has to make a small mental adjustment to the new tool. As time goes on the petty differences between DSLR and mirrorless will become less and less of an issue for discussion as technology improves. We are witnessing the end of the DSLR era and approaching the golden age of mirrorless.

** What I would really like to see is instead of a tiny peephole on mirrorless cameras is a somewhat larger EVF or viewscreen on the back of the camera with a small light hood. There is no need in this day and age for photographers to look through tiny peepholes! Eye relief should be a major priority. Think the waist level viewscreen on the old Hassy's only on the b ack of the camera. Of course the LCD screen could be used with a hood attachment, but higher resolution would be needed.
I think this was covered before in the many "... (show quote)


It would seem that you have not looked through proper mirrorless EVFs, which are usually much larger and much brighter than DSLR viewfinders - which over the years have proved to be quite abysmal.

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Aug 21, 2022 13:07:28   #
delder Loc: Maryland
 
cdayton:

I DO agree with your sentiments.
I started with a Yashicaflex
[Dual Lens Refex] as my first reflex camera in High School. While I wasn't yet looking through the prime lens, at least I was looking through glass! Graduated to a Fuji SLR sometime in the 70's and enjoying it for a long while.
Moved on to a Nikon F4004 in the 80's which I still have. Settled for a series of affordable Digital Point and Shoot cameras when film/processing went out of style at the end of the last century.
Other than the very early viewfinder equipped models, these ALL had Digital Screens for viewing. Do these little Cameras then count as MIRRORLESS?
I finally got a D3100 a couple of years ago so I could use my Nikon lens kit again. I REALLY ENJOY
"Looking through the Glass" again!
Anyway, state of the art MIRRORLESS Cameras are well out of my current budget...

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Aug 21, 2022 13:56:00   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
[quote=MJPerini]
JeffL wrote:
There is one consideration that is rarely mentioned in these mirrorless vs. DSLR debates: investment.

Investment, really has nothing to do with the comparison. Technology moves on independently of all of us and our abilities as photographers. Technology never makes you a better photographer , but can make some things easier, faster or better in some way.
If you are happy with the equipment you own and it produces the results you want, you should feel zero pressure to change. The D850 is one of the best cameras ever made, if you went looking for something you cannot do with that camera you would be hard pressed to find something.
If you decide that some of the features of Mirrorless better suit your style then add a body, if you are happy with your D850 use it and don't worry.
There will ALWAYS be something new.
There is one consideration that is rarely mentione... (show quote)


Investment? Cameras are EXPENSES, unless you are a professional playing by accounting rules for capital equipment. Even then, they depreciate rapidly. Professional project managers would call camera equipment "sunk costs," because you'll never get them all back when you trade or sell.

True investments accrue value in the form of business profit, or dividends, or interest, or capital *appreciation*. When you spend money on a hobby, it is a cost.

I've spent a lot of money on photography since my teens in the '60s and '70s. It's all sunk costs.

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Aug 21, 2022 14:23:06   #
User ID
 
ELNikkor wrote:
Still have my film cameras and darkroom, D750 is my "high-tech" digital. Do ANY mirrorless have a built-in flash??

Flash is a rather common feature. High end m4/3 come with tiny hot shoe auto flashes that are powered by the camera.
Flash is a rather common feature. High end m4/3 co...
(Download)

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Aug 21, 2022 14:23:12   #
Mustang1
 
I've a friend who owns a Nikon D750. He only knows how to take pictures with it in Auto or Prog. He knows nothing about composition or shooting photos. It's a total waste of a mirrorless camera on him.

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Aug 21, 2022 14:34:53   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Photec wrote:
That means you no longer have any highly sensitive and fragile electro-mechanical components in a slightly smaller box.


Wrong in most cases. The Z9 may not have a mechanical shutter, but virtually all other mirrorless cameras do have one. There is a reason for this. A typical electronic shutter scans the frame from top to bottom or vice versa. If you take a picture of a fast moving subject (golf club, tennis racquet) at a high shutter speed, the scan across the frame is relatively slow, and you will get distortion of the photographed object. This is known as the rolling shutter effect. The mechanical shutter moves across the frame much faster and minimizes this problem. The Z9 has a stacked electronic shutter that records the entire frame virtually all at once. This will eventually filter down to less expensive cameras, but at this point, you have to spend a ton of money to get this feature, whether it's with Nikon, Sony or whatever.

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Aug 21, 2022 14:55:21   #
petrochemist Loc: UK
 
ELNikkor wrote:
Still have my film cameras and darkroom, D750 is my "high-tech" digital. Do ANY mirrorless have a built-in flash??


85% of my mirrorless models do - several allowing the built in flash to be bounced off the ceiling if desired, not a feature I've seen in a DSLR. Of course they all have hot shoes as well if more power is needed.

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Aug 21, 2022 15:30:03   #
revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson
 
It is absolutely, without a doubt . . . . whatever. As a friend puts it, "Whatever floats your boat."

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Aug 21, 2022 15:48:25   #
Tony G.
 
The mirrorless viewfinder is simply WYSIWYG

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Aug 21, 2022 15:49:43   #
RS Bandit
 
I always enjoy CHG_CANONS responses as they challenge us to look beyond the emotional.

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