Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

The article you point to gives reasons why Nationalization is a bad idea. I will give you the last summarizing paragraph from the Economist article...

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Well yes, my Uncle Hugo and his ilk do image the NO side of the coin the Economist article saying... "These feeble governments, in turn, look to NOCs to perform tasks that would normally fall to the bureaucracy. Many oil-rich states rely on them to bankroll their budgets, rather than bothering to collect any tax." The sister article... http://www.economist.com/node/7270301

But on the positive side of the coin a sister article of the Economist stated... "Norway's NOC, is generally thought to be the best of the lot. Norway, after all, was a rich, efficiently administered country long before Statoil produced its first drop of oil. It had plenty of educated citizens to help staff and regulate the company, a free press, well-funded police and impartial courts to guard against corruption. ..." (also in 7270301)

So, indeed if we USA could manage correctly, and we have the expertise to do it then it would be a profitable venture. But let us not focus only on profitability and efficiency, both important to be sure, rather let us consider that control of where the oil goes, America (USA) first, is a crucial aspect of nationalization.

Assured supply for USA is highly important realistically this requires a strong government control and possibly nationalization. Profits from American oil should benefit America and should, at least in part, be utilized to accelerate/subsidize (early stages) clean renewable energy sources development.

Immediate is the utilization of natural gas by subsidizing at first installation of NG conversion/distribution facilities. As with many things the chicken/egg problem arises. Producing and/or converting transportation (cars/trucks) will not be done because where would they go to fill up? So lets not do it would be their decision! Like wise, if installed in many filling stations then the owners question would be...who would use them since few if any vehicles would utilize them. A standoff, a classic an arm folding situation!!!
The two sided stand off both logical:
I won't convert my car because there are no filling stations // I won't convert my filling stations because there are no converted cars!! Only the coordinated/financed big push of (unfortunately) government can push such things by mandate and money. (Socialism, sure, but so are our free interstates vs privately owned toll roads. Some things are best done by governments under social contract to act as a social group)

Artsmith Loc: Grayson, Georgia

Sounds really great except what happens to the investors in these big bad oil companies who have a stake in them with their 401K's, mutual funds, college funds,people who are retired and depend on the dividends from such companies? What comes next The Twinkie bakery. I challenge you to name one major thing our government has run that comes close to being called a success. Right now federal employees are a significant part of our economy and the only part that actually contributes nothing to our GNP. So I guess if you gave them the oil industry to try and run it will surely succeed this time.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

You and I have a far disparate view of our government and it's effectiveness and its willingness to work on the behalf of the American people... Take this week for instance, our government according to all the News organizations faces the most challenging fiscal crisis since the great depression, commonly know as the "Fiscal Cliff". This challenge was designed to be solved by the first of the coming year, they have all know it was coming and have ample time to make plans and contingency plans as this date has been approaching... What has been done?, nothing! Where are your congressional leaders? They have left DC for the Thanksgiving holiday! If Walmart employees consider their jobs important enough to forego their families on this holiday, do you not think that the congress for at least once should show the American people that they give a shit about us by solving these problems before going out on break!

No my friend, I have little confidence in our government.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Blurryeyed I find your comments about the ineffectiveness of the government (congress) the be disgusting... aaa but sorry to say true! So on that we at least agree.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

I suspect if you check with Walmart's employees, they are not filled with enthusiasm. Not if "Do you want to work on Thanksgiving?" equates to "Do you want to have a job?", which it almost surely does.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Blurryeyed I should have added the cravat ... The question of nationalizing oil for security and profit within the country is a separate one from can it be done efficiently that is a separate question entirely. With you and I and RMM on the board of directors we would make Sure it is done right... are you up to that load?

RMM, when we were young you bought what you needed before 8pm, before 6pm on Saturday and after noon on Sunday if at all. While I was in Mar del Plata Argentina, stores opened at 8 or 9, closed at noon, reopened at 5pm til 10pm. Closed entirely for many many state holidays... and I mean MANY!! How did I manage? Well I made a list and checked it twice like Santa and then bought what I needed when they were open. Walked to the grocery center 2.8 miles and then put it in a back pack and walked home...

Oh back to oil... key to survival. During WW2 gasoline was rationed with stamps... meat with tokens.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

I like your style. "Don't tell me what we can't do and why we can't do it, tell me HOW to do it." And drag a smart critic in to make sure it gets done right.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

That is not to the point that I am making, it would seem that our government has its priorities a little misplaced. These guys just came back from break and they are out again, yet here the country is dependent on their being committed to their jobs and so far it would seem that they will only let us down again... No they don't get our oil companies, I like knowing that when I need gas for my car that I can get it with little problem....

I do agree that I hate the fact that retailers are opening on Thanksgiving, it is not like they are going to increase overall Xmas sales, they are just trying to one up each other and that will play out in one season yet those who work in their stores will lose their Holiday forever. I think that it sucks and am very much against it...

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Blurryeyed " I like knowing that when I need gas <fuel> for my car that I can get it with little problem...."

My god, Blurryeyed, we again agree, having gas or other fuel or energy or convenient transportation when we need/want it is my point. If the existing oil companies, sell themselves to China, then -- Kiss your gass good by! Do you really assume that the existing companies can not sell out to others and look over it shoulder and shed a false tear as the USA crumbles?

If we were talking "blood" and we were in a war and the "blood company" said sorry sold out to the other-side, then what? There are certain crucial things we must control to survive when the Muslim brotherhood sand hits the fan. The Gaza ambassador said to the Israeli during today's meeting "does America want to stand with Israel and have 160 millions of Mideasters against them?" (not exact quot)

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

You see where you and I do not agree is that I have less trust in our government than I do the oil companies... Yes the oil companies are in it for profit, and yes the oil companies will do what they do to maximize their profits, but the bottom line is that they operate much more efficiently and with foresight that will never be matched by our government... Should there come a day where we were actually cut off from oil imports then I am sure that our oil would remain in our domestic markets, but we would still be faced with crippling shortages because we do not produce enough oil to meet our own demand. I would also suggest that we would be producing much less than we currently are had production been owned and controlled by our government.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

Yes, but you have to agree with dpullum that companies get bought and sold by foreign investors as well as our own. While a good politician is one that stays bought after you bribe him, there's just no market where you can buy the whole government.

<removing tongue from cheek>

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Well, the supreme court as set the stage for selling government. No way could they not see that money unchecked from big doners could do harm. They said they needed proof first, well they need a Proctologists to examine their thoughts on the subject; any fool knows better... well not any, exclude the majority who voted yes for "corporations are people".

mlj Loc: Anderson, SC

I agree with both you and blurry. If the US decided to become energy "independent" with fossil fuels and invest less in oil and more in renewable sources of energy, we will find ourselves with major problems. Yes, we can pursue alternative energy for our cars, but, other than nuclear energy, we have no answer to providing electricity for our cities. The main source of electrical energy for Europe is nuclear energy. That is because they do not have "natural" fossil fuel reserves.

Until such time the US is willing to invest in safe alternatives, we should be using the safest technology we know to provide the US with its energy...electrical and transportation.

I would really like to purchase an electric/hybrid car. But the infrastructure I need to make it feasible for me is not there. Also, the cost of a gasoline powered car is much less expensive than a hybrid car. It seems to me that the government has spent money unwisely trying to create alternative energy resources. Just look at what happened to Solyndra.

If I were a "wealthy" person, I could afford any type of vehicle I wanted. I could "promote" myself as an "eco-friendly" person. That would be good PR for a "rich" guy.

So, IMHO, the US should make every effort to enhance/improve its technology regarding alternative energy. At the same time, we should do whatever it takes to extract all of the fossil fuels we "own." If we get to the point of needing less fossil fuels, then we can sell what WE own to countries that have not been able to advance to our level of alternative energy sources.

If countries such as Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, etc. found that the US was not willing to purchase their oil, what would they do? Yes, they could sell to China. But if the US was "energy independent" in fossil fuels, the US could do a much better job of promoting our "democratic republic" to other countries.

In some ways I am a "Reagan" idealist. I also know that the power of the US and the Soviets brought down the Nazis. And I am confident that the democratic republic of the US proved to the Soviets that socialism was a terrible idea.

In a few years I will retire. Over the past 10 years I have seen wars that "should not have been," and policies by the government that suggest "nationalization." I have seen policies that suggest redistribution of wealth. I doubt the merits of either.

My boss ( I am a State employee) makes a lot more money than do I. I have received a 1.2% pay raise over the past four years. My insurance deductibles have increased. I actually make less money than I did four years ago.

Do I deserve more money?...absolutely! My responsibilities have increased during that time.

Why am I getting less money? The state is accepting more federal money that it can only spend on federal programs. The State reallocates its federal monies but expects its employees to do the work.

Sorry to be so long-winded. I guess I have been around so long that I see things from a different perspective.

LOL! About ten years ago, I found a pay stub from K-Mart. I was working my way through college in the late 60's. I was being paid $1.25 per hour. I was able to work for them and save enough for a college degree. I recall paying .19$ per gallon for gasoline.

No, I am not trying to live in the past. I am trying to figure out how best to get the US in a more prosperous situation. We NEED to become energy independent...or we will really suffer the consequences.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

What would they do? Sell to the rest of the world - Europe, Africa, China, Japan, Brazil. Oil is oil, there isn't too much to distinguish one barrel from another. Yes, refineries are built to work best with particular crudes (sulfur content, density, etc.), but they can do quite well with other sources. We can keep every drop of oil we can produce, and Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, etc. will do just fine. As for promoting American values, how have we been doing? Iraq, Afghanistan, hmmm...