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A complex question
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Nov 10, 2021 10:41:18   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
The person (who is being paid to control the safety of the gun and the people around) a who puts a gun in the hands of any one is partly responsible. The sound of the management of the movie must have had the total IQ of the Village Idiot.

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Nov 10, 2021 10:51:46   #
neillaubenthal
 
Manglesphoto wrote:
With a simple answer.
Who is at fault in Alex Baldwin's firearm incident
I am talking about adults.
I guess I should give my answer.
The only person at fault is the person that pulled the trigger!!! No one else!!!
All guns Are loaded until YOU clear them!!!
If you don't know how to clear a weapon LEAVE IT ALONE!!!


Generally speaking…Baldwin should have checked it before practicing to make sure it was empty. However…there's a lot of blame to go around…the producer who announced it was a cold gun, whoever in the prop department who handed the gun to the producer (it might not have been the head armorer), the head armorer for allowing any real ammo on the set, etc, etc. Baldwin is an actor and a liberal so it's not really surprising that he doesn't know one end of a handgun from the other end and took the assistant producer/director/whatever he was word for it…but he should have specifically had that person verify that it was empty…but being a liberal gun heater doesn't know anything about firearm safety.

Apparently there is a whole bunch wrong with that production company from screwing the camera people over to lack of safety precautions.

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Nov 10, 2021 10:52:24   #
PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA
 
Jtittsworth wrote:
The shooter. I have been around guns my entire life and spent over twenty years in the military. Anyone handing you a gun must check and clear it; however, the receiver has a responsibility to check and make sure it is clear or has the correct ammunition. Ultimately the shooter has full responsibility.


Four years as a Navy Corpsman, including a couple years attached to a Marine unit, and 22 years working in the Federal Bureau of Prisons, I learned a good amount of firearm safety. Actually had it stressed nearly to the point of memorization. Any time a firearm is handed to you, check that is is NOT loaded and no round is in the firing chamber. It is the responsibility of the person handling the weapon to insure the safety of him/herself and all surroundings.

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Nov 10, 2021 11:04:40   #
cytafex Loc: Clarksburg MA
 
First rule, before handling a gun seek instruction on proper use. Second rule, check chamber. Third, never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. The person who shoots a gun is responsible for what ever happens!

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Nov 10, 2021 11:09:29   #
Fotoserj Loc: St calixte Qc Ca
 
My taugh exactly, and very surprised that he wouldn’t know that

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Nov 10, 2021 11:10:44   #
scallihan Loc: Tigard, OR
 
Manglesphoto wrote:
With a simple answer.
Who is at fault in Alex Baldwin's firearm incident
I am talking about adults.
I guess I should give my answer.
The only person at fault is the person that pulled the trigger!!! No one else!!!
All guns Are loaded until YOU clear them!!!
If you don't know how to clear a weapon LEAVE IT ALONE!!!


The first two things my dad taught me about guns are that they are always loaded until you clear them, and never point a firearm at anything unless you intend to kill it.

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Nov 10, 2021 11:24:18   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
PixHound wrote:
I cannot imagine any scenario where live ammo should EVER be on a set.
I agree with this totally. I don't think that real guns should be on a set either. Having said that, you can tell in old movies (think John Wayne) that real firearms were in use along with live ammunition. You can tell from the recoil of the guns. Nothing makes a gun recoil like a lead bullet shooting out of it. That's hard to fake, and it's comical the way some actors try it by jerking their "guns".

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Nov 10, 2021 11:36:48   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Manglesphoto, This incident was the perfect storm of incompetence, stupidity, and greed. Not only were there hundreds of rounds of "live ammo" on the movie set, but the guns used for the movie were also taken out for the thrill of shooting by the cast members and others.

The armorer for the movie was a young gal that had very little experience in the use and safety of firearms. There had been complaints on other movie sets of careless and nonchalant attitude.

Although no details were released, my theory is that this revolver was one that was used at the "fun to shoot guns" outing of the cast and crew the days before and it was not cleared of the live rounds....and the armorer did not check to assure that it was clear and that only fresh new blanks were put in it for the practice scene before the camera.

I also believe that George Hickey of the Secret Service accidentally fired the headshot with the AR rifle he was holding that killed President Kennedy when he fell backward in the car directly behind the President. Oswald fired the initial rounds that were fatal for the President who was held upright due to the back brace he was wearing. The Secret Service did not cover up a conspiracy to assassinate the President. They covered up their own accidental shooting by one of their own.

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Nov 10, 2021 11:39:32   #
scallihan Loc: Tigard, OR
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Manglesphoto, This incident was the perfect storm of incompetence, stupidity, and greed. Not only were there hundreds of rounds of "live ammo" on the movie set, but the guns used for the movie were also taken out for the thrill of shooting by the cast members and others.

The armorer for the movie was a young gal that had very little experience in the use and safety of firearms. There had been complaints on other movie sets of careless and nonchalant attitude.

Although no details were released, my theory is that this revolver was one that was used at the "fun to shoot guns" outing of the cast and crew the days before and it was not cleared of the live rounds....and the armorer did not check to assure that it was clear and that only fresh new blanks were put in it for the practice scene before the camera.

I also believe that George Hickey of the Secret Service accidentally fired the headshot with the AR rifle he was holding that killed President Kennedy when he fell backward in the car directly behind the President. Oswald fired the initial rounds that were fatal for the President who was held upright due to the back brace he was wearing. The Secret Service did not cover up a conspiracy to assassinate the President. They covered up their own accidental shooting by one of their own.
Manglesphoto, This incident was the perfect storm ... (show quote)


Wow, that's wandering off topic.

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Nov 10, 2021 11:50:25   #
Daryls Loc: Waco, TX
 
Manglesphoto wrote:
With a simple answer.
Who is at fault in Alex Baldwin's firearm incident
I am talking about adults.
I guess I should give my answer.
The only person at fault is the person that pulled the trigger!!! No one else!!!
All guns Are loaded until YOU clear them!!!
If you don't know how to clear a weapon LEAVE IT ALONE!!!



Baldwin is totally at fault.

1. As the movie's producer, his duties include hiring and managing key team members, including writers, directors, managers, talent, heads of department, key crew, staff, and other personnel. He allowed multiple safety violations to continue on the set even after crew members complained and some even quit the production over safety concerns before the shooting.

2. Using a real pistol instead of a fake one is not a problem, provided safety rules are in place and followed. Baldwin failed to do this. He allowed real bullets on the set and he allowed the "prop" guns to be used for target practice with real bullets.

3. Some of the crew members were not experienced or trained in their duties, so the "prop" gun was not properly checked.

4. Other crew members claimed the "prop" gun was cleared and unloaded - cold gun - without verifying its condition first.

5. Baldwin accepted the claims of a safe "prop" gun without verifying it himself.

6. Finally, he then proceeded to point the loaded "prop" gun at people and pulled the trigger.

Baldwin is guilty as sin all the way around and should suffer the full consequences the law allows!

Daryl

3.

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Nov 10, 2021 11:51:42   #
kschwegl Loc: Orangeburg, NY
 
rmalarz wrote:
"All guns Are loaded until YOU clear them!!!" And, even then treat them as if they are loaded.
--Bob


You are absolutely right. If you have a gun in your hand YOU are responsible. ALL guns are loaded until proven otherwise.

Ken S.

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Nov 10, 2021 12:00:50   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
Burtzy wrote:
An actor wouldn't know a live round from a blank. He would only see that there is something in the chamber. He should never have pointed it at anyone but the armorer has at least equal responsibilty.


The actor should know!!!!
If you know nothing about a tool don't F### with it.

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Nov 10, 2021 12:04:27   #
Amielee Loc: Eastern Washington State
 
therwol wrote:
There are scenes in Western movies and old TV series that call for actors to "shoot" each other at close range. An actor's job is to act, not be a firearms expert. I've met many people in my life who have never shot a gun. I'll guess that some actors would not even know the difference between a real gun and a replica or the difference between live and dummy rounds. What if the actor happens to be a child? There should be a robust system in place to prevent any accident like this, and I would go along with the suggestion that real guns should not be used in movies or on TV any longer. There is no reason for it.
There are scenes in Western movies and old TV seri... (show quote)


How many months does it take to make a movie? If an actor is not familiar with firearms how much trouble would it be to give the actor a couple hours of instruction by a qualified firearms instructor? Mr. Baldwin should not have pointed the firearm at the victim and a supervisor should have been there to tell him not to do that. In the final analysis it was Mr. Baldwin's fault. He squeezed the trigger and he should have known it was safe to do so. Several people were at fault but Alex was the last one to hold the weapon before it was fired.

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Nov 10, 2021 12:23:07   #
Toby
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Manglesphoto, This incident was the perfect storm of incompetence, stupidity, and greed. Not only were there hundreds of rounds of "live ammo" on the movie set, but the guns used for the movie were also taken out for the thrill of shooting by the cast members and others.

The armorer for the movie was a young gal that had very little experience in the use and safety of firearms. There had been complaints on other movie sets of careless and nonchalant attitude.

Although no details were released, my theory is that this revolver was one that was used at the "fun to shoot guns" outing of the cast and crew the days before and it was not cleared of the live rounds....and the armorer did not check to assure that it was clear and that only fresh new blanks were put in it for the practice scene before the camera.

I also believe that George Hickey of the Secret Service accidentally fired the headshot with the AR rifle he was holding that killed President Kennedy when he fell backward in the car directly behind the President. Oswald fired the initial rounds that were fatal for the President who was held upright due to the back brace he was wearing. The Secret Service did not cover up a conspiracy to assassinate the President. They covered up their own accidental shooting by one of their own.
Manglesphoto, This incident was the perfect storm ... (show quote)


WOW! I always wondered who shot JFK and now another theory. Maybe you have been hitting your Sippy jug too hard!

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Nov 10, 2021 12:28:23   #
Canisdirus
 
This says it all...Unforgiven clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE9RDQw9ZL0

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