Does this make me a bad photographer? (Page 11): As we say in motorcycles, "Ride your own ride." While it's good to explore as many approaches to photography as possible it's a trap to...

jaycoffman Loc: San Diego

As we say in motorcycles, "Ride your own ride." While it's good to explore as many approaches to photography as possible it's a trap to let them make you lose faith in yourself. You know what you like to shoot and why. And, yes, it's fine to shoot in the middle of the day when that's all you have (since I shoot a lot of travel photos I often have only mid-day to catch a location or event). Just do the best you can. Not every photo needs to be one you enter into competition. What you should take away from the classes is "continuous improvement." That is being more and more aware of what you're shooting in each shot. As the other say--the pictures you post here are great.

tdozier3 Loc: Northern Illinois

Photolady2014 wrote:

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day class with a very well known photographer who has won many, many awards, photos in the Smithsonian and is a judge for contests like Natures Best Photography. I learned sooo much about what makes a great photo.

Half way through the 5 days I was feeling quite overwhelmed and almost in tears because to get the photo that he would consider a photo seems near impossible. I totally understand photos before and just after sunrise and sunset are the best, but is it awful that I still want to take photos mid day? On several of my trips I have still gotten photos I really like, even though they do not have the special light and there are shadows etc. I scoured my photos and submitted them for the class and so far I do not have one photo that is not a "non-photo" due to shadow or lack of a hook or a background that is not totally creamy, or a host of other bad things.

I will post some of his comments to what I thought was going to be an ok photo.

The last one was reviewed verbally, the shadows! Bridge of the nose by eye, and the light patch of fur below the right eye as you look at the photo and curve shadow back to the nose is a big distraction. He could tell I was off by 2 degrees and that caused the bad shadow. The lighter fur to the left of the nose stops the eye from traveling from the lower left to the eye. You are supposed to have something soft in the lower left that makes your eye travel from lower left to the "hook" eye. In this case it does not work due to light fur interrupts the flow to the eye and then the shadows on the right. Then, the white fur on the lips could have been lightened to make it better if the other issues had not condemned it to be a "non-photo". Oh and the green line going through the background is bad.

Who knew you were not supposed to have sky in a bird photo, or that with something like a coyote all 4 legs must have separation and no crossover and that the farthest away front leg should be going forward. That the background must be very creamy with no light and dark areas. Shadows are the worst! Like crap, I was off by 2 or 4 degrees with the shadow. Must have a hook, no lines and of course good light, no messy sticks. Example an owl in a tree is bad if the leaves are all around it.

Anyway, I feel like a bad person/photographer for still liking some of my photos that are not perfect and still wanting to just have fun taking a photo and if I see a mom and baby moose at noon in a messy field of grass with a shadow, I'm still going to take the photo!

Again, I learned a LOT and the pro is a very nice guy and very talented. I will try and do what he says, but may still take what I know will be a "non-photo" am I bad?

Comments welcome, I have had lots of criticism lately, I can handle it! Well I might cry....

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day... (show quote)

I call bullshit. Wait, can I say that ? That's why I've never wasted my money on any "Photography Class"

jburlinson Loc: Austin, TX

All of the people here who are telling the op to dump her teacher or to disregard what he has to say and then pat her on the head for creating some nice but not "award-winning" photos are not doing the op any favors. She is obviously keen to improve her technique and is willing to devote some serious resources to doing so; these courses cost big money and take up lots of time. She's already said more than once that she likes her teacher and respects his skills, to the point of considering spending some more money and time with him.

He, in return, has done what he was paid to do by taking her efforts seriously and giving some cogent critique.

Reminds me of when I was taking piano lessons. My teacher rarely wasted her eloquence on praising what I had done well. We both knew what that was. Instead, she relentlessly insisted that I improve what needed improving. Frustrating for me at lesson time, yes; but it was exactly what I was paying for. Everyone else just told me how "nice" I played, and could hardly have cared less if I ever got any better.

And if someone had told me that I shouldn't pay any attention to my football coaches when they ran me ragged and put me through another grueling drill, that would have been a quick trip to the bench for me if I had followed that advice.

DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Photolady2014 wrote:

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day class with a very well known photographer who has won many, many awards, photos in the Smithsonian and is a judge for contests like Natures Best Photography. I learned sooo much about what makes a great photo.

Half way through the 5 days I was feeling quite overwhelmed and almost in tears because to get the photo that he would consider a photo seems near impossible. I totally understand photos before and just after sunrise and sunset are the best, but is it awful that I still want to take photos mid day? On several of my trips I have still gotten photos I really like, even though they do not have the special light and there are shadows etc. I scoured my photos and submitted them for the class and so far I do not have one photo that is not a "non-photo" due to shadow or lack of a hook or a background that is not totally creamy, or a host of other bad things.

I will post some of his comments to what I thought was going to be an ok photo.

The last one was reviewed verbally, the shadows! Bridge of the nose by eye, and the light patch of fur below the right eye as you look at the photo and curve shadow back to the nose is a big distraction. He could tell I was off by 2 degrees and that caused the bad shadow. The lighter fur to the left of the nose stops the eye from traveling from the lower left to the eye. You are supposed to have something soft in the lower left that makes your eye travel from lower left to the "hook" eye. In this case it does not work due to light fur interrupts the flow to the eye and then the shadows on the right. Then, the white fur on the lips could have been lightened to make it better if the other issues had not condemned it to be a "non-photo". Oh and the green line going through the background is bad.

Who knew you were not supposed to have sky in a bird photo, or that with something like a coyote all 4 legs must have separation and no crossover and that the farthest away front leg should be going forward. That the background must be very creamy with no light and dark areas. Shadows are the worst! Like crap, I was off by 2 or 4 degrees with the shadow. Must have a hook, no lines and of course good light, no messy sticks. Example an owl in a tree is bad if the leaves are all around it.

Anyway, I feel like a bad person/photographer for still liking some of my photos that are not perfect and still wanting to just have fun taking a photo and if I see a mom and baby moose at noon in a messy field of grass with a shadow, I'm still going to take the photo!

Again, I learned a LOT and the pro is a very nice guy and very talented. I will try and do what he says, but may still take what I know will be a "non-photo" am I bad?

Comments welcome, I have had lots of criticism lately, I can handle it! Well I might cry....

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day... (show quote)

First, most of us on this forum know that you are one of the best wildlife photographers here. We also know that if you didn't shoot when an opportunity arises - whatever the current state of the light or the environment - then you would miss many great shots. Clearly the teacher of your class was suggesting that every shot must be perfect technically rather than perfect artistically or emotionally. I wouldn't pay too much attention to that kind of thinking. Shoot away like you always do - you're handling photography amazingly well.

Don, the 2nd son Loc: Crowded Florida

quixdraw wrote:

Take a deep breath, forget nearly everything the "Distinguished Photographer" said. Two things, a big Cheese always has to be that, ego! Second if he can't find all sorts of things wrong, how can he get you to take more and better classes. There is no one standard or size that fits all. Choose things you found useful, toss the rest and move on. You take lots of photos that are very fine, you did before the class, and will continue to do so!

ConradN

Beware of experts’ and perfectionists’ advice; it will suck joy out of every journey. Hone your own eye.

Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb

I believe the teacher is a technician not a photographer. Real life with a camera, except maybe in a studio, is your opportunity and can't be so controlled as he think it can be. Shame on him for the way he help, guides and encourage (not break down) his students.

Cwilson341 Loc: Central Florida

Life without any shadows would be very flat! I think all of these are outstanding photos and I’m an expert at knowing what I like!

Hip Coyote

At my camera club we are able to submit photos to be critiqued by professional photographers. This has dramatically improved my photography which started at a very low level. I have found that the best pros find what is good and what needs improvement in each photo. They are trying to create a state of readiness and acceptance for their critics. Sometimes, I disagree with their assessments, but more often than not find merit in their critiques. On two occasions I had photos which I thought, and still do think, were merit-worthy shots, yet the pro did not. So what? I just move on. Even one of the clubs highly acclaimed photogs said the Pro kinda missed the point. In other shots, I have received high merit on shots I do not think were worthy.

There is one visiting rated that rates everything high. I find that useless as well.

I think your instructor is not a good teacher. 4 degrees seems a bit odd. Lack of positive feedback is professional neglect. I also think he is right with regard to the shadows issue and the bird on the buffalo head...so what? He failed to give kudos where kudos are do. And are you really looking at your shots with a fresh set of eyes ?

I once wrote that there was a circle around the exposure triangle. That circle is enjoyment. Have fun, don’t take this too seriously, try to improve and enjoy the process.

george19

These are great photographs, and can probably be easily sold. Are you thinking of turning pro? Willing to be waist deep in a swamp for hours until the light and subject become perfect? Didn’t think so.

He can see 2 degrees of difference between the shot you got and the shot he wants? Good for him. Maybe that situation didn’t arise. Maybe you liked your shot better. Maybe the person buying your picture likes your shot better.

Here’s the thing: it’s pretty easy to go from 10% to 20% to 50% to 90%. It’s really HARD to go from 99.9% to 99.99%.

Unless you really stage every shot, nature photography is about the luck in spotting the image and the skill in capturing it.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

UTMike wrote:

You just keep posting your "bad" photos and I will endure them, Beth!

Ok second that.

ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio

Photolady2014 wrote:

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day class with a very well known photographer who has won many, many awards, photos in the Smithsonian and is a judge for contests like Natures Best Photography. I learned sooo much about what makes a great photo.

Half way through the 5 days I was feeling quite overwhelmed and almost in tears because to get the photo that he would consider a photo seems near impossible. I totally understand photos before and just after sunrise and sunset are the best, but is it awful that I still want to take photos mid day? On several of my trips I have still gotten photos I really like, even though they do not have the special light and there are shadows etc. I scoured my photos and submitted them for the class and so far I do not have one photo that is not a "non-photo" due to shadow or lack of a hook or a background that is not totally creamy, or a host of other bad things.

I will post some of his comments to what I thought was going to be an ok photo.

The last one was reviewed verbally, the shadows! Bridge of the nose by eye, and the light patch of fur below the right eye as you look at the photo and curve shadow back to the nose is a big distraction. He could tell I was off by 2 degrees and that caused the bad shadow. The lighter fur to the left of the nose stops the eye from traveling from the lower left to the eye. You are supposed to have something soft in the lower left that makes your eye travel from lower left to the "hook" eye. In this case it does not work due to light fur interrupts the flow to the eye and then the shadows on the right. Then, the white fur on the lips could have been lightened to make it better if the other issues had not condemned it to be a "non-photo". Oh and the green line going through the background is bad.

Who knew you were not supposed to have sky in a bird photo, or that with something like a coyote all 4 legs must have separation and no crossover and that the farthest away front leg should be going forward. That the background must be very creamy with no light and dark areas. Shadows are the worst! Like crap, I was off by 2 or 4 degrees with the shadow. Must have a hook, no lines and of course good light, no messy sticks. Example an owl in a tree is bad if the leaves are all around it.

Anyway, I feel like a bad person/photographer for still liking some of my photos that are not perfect and still wanting to just have fun taking a photo and if I see a mom and baby moose at noon in a messy field of grass with a shadow, I'm still going to take the photo!

Again, I learned a LOT and the pro is a very nice guy and very talented. I will try and do what he says, but may still take what I know will be a "non-photo" am I bad?

Comments welcome, I have had lots of criticism lately, I can handle it! Well I might cry....

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day... (show quote)

Don’t let someone else ruin your love of photography . You paid him for his professional opinions and you got his, like it or not. Use what helps you but do not think that everything is cast in stone. Photography is an art and many of the worst works of art I have ever seen are hanging in museums. Enjoy!! BTW Nice work!!

,

RolandDieter

One way to justify your position as a specialty instructor is to constantly criticize the students work. Sometimes they criticize to get you to sign up for more. In my opinion, the fox and the ape are "perfect" as they are (but other renditions could also be "perfect). The contrast complaints the instructor made of some shots seem to be the fault of the sunlight. Does the instructor think you should not to take a picture or would he/she bring lighting equipment on safari? Lastly, rule of thirds often works best when broken (and that's advice from a famous instructor I know).

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

As Mom used to say, “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.”

The ratio of praise to criticism works well at about 5:1.

Bad news first… then 5X good news.

All photo critiques are subjective, even when based upon objective criteria. A judge’s style preferences always intrude. (Witness the Olympics, where they throw out high and low scores and keep the rest.)

JVada Loc: OH

Beth-
Surprised he is still "teaching", or preaching? This guy is at the wrong level and for the wrong audience?

I've taught commercial photography(sum tel of 36 yrs!) at a Clg of art and design, a school of professional photography, and finally at the high school(VoTech) level for HS seniors...my MOST interesting and challenging crowd(loved it!)! I think your work is very clean and compelling. Everyone above honed into all the valid points of why you SHOULD take his "advice"... with a grain of salt. You are shooting for YOUrself, pls don't forget this! Not for me. His approach was very overwhelming and perhaps convoluted and would easily tend to confuse the issue for anyone was in the field worrying about 2 degrees vs 4 degrees(!), and his picayune trivia as you posted. Some of his points were valid I yield to you, but not with the shotgun approach I'm seeing. You will miss too many opportunities if you go out and worry about this robot-like approach and end up with photo's that might be closer to technical perfection(?) but rather DEVOID of personal expression and ... sterile. It seems like you realize this, thank goodness, and should pursue your photography full speed AS YOU ARE! Yippers, take 50% of what you wrote down or heard, and then ignore. The important things you WILL remember as they will invariably have more meaning and use for you during your photographic treks. If I had ever tried this approach with my high school seniors they would have dragged me into the darkroom and drowned me in the rapid fix! Sorry you had this experience but one photo course does not a photographer make. Take the best of what you learned from him and simply move on. Pls, take more courses later on when you can but realize the greatest education comes from your going out and learning from YOUR mistakes and progress. Some pro's are good at what they do... but just cannot "teach" what they do effectively...as we all know. Doesn't sound like you have soured on the joy of photography! Your work is very admirable with a good degree of technical prowess...AND...expressive personality. THAT fox capture is very compelling and one of my favs(hope you have a 16X20" print of that on one of your walls! I would...! Visually...J