Does this make me a bad photographer? (Page 12): Some top-line photographers brag about how they do minimal post processing in their pictures, but others teach how they do quite a bit...

Mark Sturtevant Loc: Grand Blanc, MI

Some top-line photographers brag about how they do minimal post processing in their pictures, but others teach how they do quite a bit of that. For the latter, I know (from watching their videos), that they will spend considerable time making adjustments to bring out details in the shadows, increase the depth of shadows if needed (to create volume), and use cloning and healing brushes to fix details in the background, and so on.
Photographing mid-day invites strong shadows, where its hard to bring out details. But if its cloudy, mid-day shooting can still soften shadows and have details in them.

srt101fan

jburlinson wrote:

All of the people here who are telling the op to d... (show quote)

WHAT??? A voice of reason? Don't you realize this the "tar-and-feather-and-run-the-teacher-out-of-town" convention?

philo Loc: philo, ca

I'm trying to figure out if your subjects are alive of dead? If they are alive then you did a great job. if they are dead they you did a great job.

Rab-Eye Loc: Indiana

quixdraw wrote:

Take a deep breath, forget nearly everything the "Distinguished Photographer" said. Two things, a big Cheese always has to be that, ego! Second if he can't find all sorts of things wrong, how can he get you to take more and better classes. There is no one standard or size that fits all. Choose things you found useful, toss the rest and move on. You take lots of photos that are very fine, you did before the class, and will continue to do so!

I couldn’t agree more!

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

One of my very best friends is a professional photographer. I like him a lot and respect what he tells me about photography very much. BUT, he has his ideas and will often point out things in my photographs that he insists on in his photographs. He is somewhat similar to what your instructor pointed out in your photographs. He will dwell on little nit pick items that are not that IMPORTANT TO ME. I am not saying you and I or everyone else here does not want to take the best photographs we can. Of course we do. But there are times of the day when he tells me, don't take that photo because the light isn't right or there are too many shadows on the subject etc. In many cases he is right. No problem there. But his level of acceptance of photographs is far above mine. There are times when I just want a record shot, a record of what took place at THAT time and place, not an hour later when the shadows are gone and the light is better for a more professional photograph.

I think that is what we are talking about here, the level of acceptance we have. I see your photographs, every one of them and admire your work. I think you take great photographs. I see nothing at all wrong with them.

I am sure you have learned much from your instructor. You can thank him for that. But each of us has different styles, different expectations of our photographs. The important thing is, what do you think of your own photographs? When you saw his photographs did you absolutely like every single one of them? See any you did not particularly like for any reason at all? Point is we can't please everybody with our photography, with our ART work.

Do not beat yourself up over this. I find your photos superb and would bet just about everyone else here does too.

I wish you well on your photographic journey,

Dennis

Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area

Photolady2014 wrote:

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day class with a very well known photographer who has won many, many awards, photos in the Smithsonian and is a judge for contests like Natures Best Photography. I learned sooo much about what makes a great photo.

Half way through the 5 days I was feeling quite overwhelmed and almost in tears because to get the photo that he would consider a photo seems near impossible. I totally understand photos before and just after sunrise and sunset are the best, but is it awful that I still want to take photos mid day? On several of my trips I have still gotten photos I really like, even though they do not have the special light and there are shadows etc. I scoured my photos and submitted them for the class and so far I do not have one photo that is not a "non-photo" due to shadow or lack of a hook or a background that is not totally creamy, or a host of other bad things.

I will post some of his comments to what I thought was going to be an ok photo.

The last one was reviewed verbally, the shadows! Bridge of the nose by eye, and the light patch of fur below the right eye as you look at the photo and curve shadow back to the nose is a big distraction. He could tell I was off by 2 degrees and that caused the bad shadow. The lighter fur to the left of the nose stops the eye from traveling from the lower left to the eye. You are supposed to have something soft in the lower left that makes your eye travel from lower left to the "hook" eye. In this case it does not work due to light fur interrupts the flow to the eye and then the shadows on the right. Then, the white fur on the lips could have been lightened to make it better if the other issues had not condemned it to be a "non-photo". Oh and the green line going through the background is bad.

Who knew you were not supposed to have sky in a bird photo, or that with something like a coyote all 4 legs must have separation and no crossover and that the farthest away front leg should be going forward. That the background must be very creamy with no light and dark areas. Shadows are the worst! Like crap, I was off by 2 or 4 degrees with the shadow. Must have a hook, no lines and of course good light, no messy sticks. Example an owl in a tree is bad if the leaves are all around it.

Anyway, I feel like a bad person/photographer for still liking some of my photos that are not perfect and still wanting to just have fun taking a photo and if I see a mom and baby moose at noon in a messy field of grass with a shadow, I'm still going to take the photo!

Again, I learned a LOT and the pro is a very nice guy and very talented. I will try and do what he says, but may still take what I know will be a "non-photo" am I bad?

Comments welcome, I have had lots of criticism lately, I can handle it! Well I might cry....

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day... (show quote)

You already take wonderful images, and you should be proud and happy about that. You said “I learned soooo much about what makes a great photo.” Mission accomplished!

Now, go out and try to incorporate some of these new learnings in your photos … and stop beating yourself up about it.

randave2001 Loc: Richmond

Wow! 12 pages of comments and still rolling!! Have you gotten enough advice or should I add a bit more?

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

Photolady2014 wrote:

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day class with a very well known photographer who has won many, many awards, photos in the Smithsonian and is a judge for contests like Natures Best Photography. I learned sooo much about what makes a great photo.

Half way through the 5 days I was feeling quite overwhelmed and almost in tears because to get the photo that he would consider a photo seems near impossible. I totally understand photos before and just after sunrise and sunset are the best, but is it awful that I still want to take photos mid day? On several of my trips I have still gotten photos I really like, even though they do not have the special light and there are shadows etc. I scoured my photos and submitted them for the class and so far I do not have one photo that is not a "non-photo" due to shadow or lack of a hook or a background that is not totally creamy, or a host of other bad things.

I will post some of his comments to what I thought was going to be an ok photo.

The last one was reviewed verbally, the shadows! Bridge of the nose by eye, and the light patch of fur below the right eye as you look at the photo and curve shadow back to the nose is a big distraction. He could tell I was off by 2 degrees and that caused the bad shadow. The lighter fur to the left of the nose stops the eye from traveling from the lower left to the eye. You are supposed to have something soft in the lower left that makes your eye travel from lower left to the "hook" eye. In this case it does not work due to light fur interrupts the flow to the eye and then the shadows on the right. Then, the white fur on the lips could have been lightened to make it better if the other issues had not condemned it to be a "non-photo". Oh and the green line going through the background is bad.

Who knew you were not supposed to have sky in a bird photo, or that with something like a coyote all 4 legs must have separation and no crossover and that the farthest away front leg should be going forward. That the background must be very creamy with no light and dark areas. Shadows are the worst! Like crap, I was off by 2 or 4 degrees with the shadow. Must have a hook, no lines and of course good light, no messy sticks. Example an owl in a tree is bad if the leaves are all around it.

Anyway, I feel like a bad person/photographer for still liking some of my photos that are not perfect and still wanting to just have fun taking a photo and if I see a mom and baby moose at noon in a messy field of grass with a shadow, I'm still going to take the photo!

Again, I learned a LOT and the pro is a very nice guy and very talented. I will try and do what he says, but may still take what I know will be a "non-photo" am I bad?

Comments welcome, I have had lots of criticism lately, I can handle it! Well I might cry....

Morning all! So I just got through taking a 5 day... (show quote)

He MAY be right is you want to be the very best in the world. But I would give up my ...... To be as good as you. Beth, he is doing two things one is he's teaching photography and how to beat the very best and, number two is he selling another class.

You are at the top of the list of posters here. Some of his remarks are wrong. The bird on the bulk, no shadow. Where is he coming from?

Remember, he is an instructor. And as such, part of his job is to make you better and to do that is too find faults that you can correct, even if he is wrong. What he did, I hope, is fine one fault and then find several good things to compliment you on. The end result of his teachings is to not discourage, but encourage. Sounds like he didn't do that. So listen to us here and.......

Keep on shooting...... And as we all do, trying to improve.

Love your work, as most others here do..... Don't let someones critique get you down.

JVada Loc: OH

LOL. great point RanDave! Hopefully Beth will not get overwhelmed from all of our well-meaning support? I hope she embraces it all and simply keeps us posted on all of her latest progress! (I feel that she has a wise head on her shoulders and will make the proper decisions for her future photography enjoyment...)

Earnest Botello Loc: Hockley, Texas

Beth, you are a great photographer, one man's opinions means nothing in the real world, you are a leader, don't become a follower, trust yourself. Follow your own path, you are great.

Michael Sabetsky Loc: Rockledge, Florida

Your photos look excellent to me. When I lived in South Florida I went to a few meetings of a camera club in that area. People would bring in there photos to be critiqued by so called experts. What these so called experts would say about the photos I disagreed with very much. I came to the conclusion that if I liked the photo I took that was what counted. Could care less what other people thought. But I did feel kind of proud when a news reporter from a South Florida TV news channel told me when I had sent him some animal photos I had taken that "you have a good eye for taking pictures" . If I don't like the photo I have taken I delete it. Period. So if you like the photos you took, forget about how that jerk made an ass of himself by his picky remarks. As long as you are satisfied, that is the bottom line. Don't let that guy get you down. Maybe you should critique his photos & nick pick on them. See how he likes that. Keep up the good work.

jtm1943

Well, if you only want to be the best of the best and to shut off every other human activity or feeling, then this guy is good (but lacking any humanity at all.) Might as well take a class from a robot or AI. And, the instructor's taxidermy bill must be sky high so he can get the lighting "just right" and the camera angle angle perfect. His kind is why I never post pictures. To him the person is totally irrelevant as they are to most football coaches also. (only the game, only the game, only the game)

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

I did not read all 12 pages of comment, only read a couple of pages. If I pay someone to teach me I am open and willing to take in what they are telling me in order to absorb the information and use it to be a better photographer, something I am always striving to be. I agree with his comments on the work you've shown, the work is a good start but does have faults. If you did not want to learn from this person perhaps you should have taken a class with someone else. A lot of people on this site would say any photo posted, and it could be the worst photo in the world, was a wonderful one, but saying that to every image does not help us to grow in our photography. Be open, listen and learn and you will be a better photographer. Or, if you just want to hear that someone likes your work keep on posting on this forum and you'll get that, no matter how bad it is.

PhotoMike5319

Ignore the hyperbolic criticism from your so called expert. I have observed your submissions to UHH for several months and you are a superb nature and landscape photographer. Take the admonishment of needing to photograph during the "golden hour" with a grain of salt and photograph what you see at any time of the day. Personally, I deliberately choose to photograph during the middle of the day when everything is in full sunshine. It makes F11 through F32 feasible with fast shutter speeds. Catch lights and shadows are always present and become compositional elements that can be easily managed by a simple change of position (your position - not the subjects).

Before retiring, I taught photography to high school students and the first thing I emphasized was that a critique (by anyone including me) was not criticism (something your expert fails to understand) but was thoughtfully designed suggestions on how to improve the image being discussed. More often than not this centered on composition and proper exposure, something that you personally excel at. If you need more convincing, read the book by Bruce Barnbaum titled "The Art of Photography" where he debunks almost everything you mention. His chapter on "Exploding Photographic Myths" includes the admonishment "The best landscape photographs are made within an hour and a half of sunrise or sunset" and he provides examples that demonstrate how false the golden hour can be (myth #6). Myth #9 eliminates the need for the rule of thirds (also with examples).

Keep shooting and trust your own decisions. Your photographs reveal your vision of the world and they are as relevant as those of anyone else. I personally have enjoyed the photographs that you have posted on UHH so please do not stop.

terpfan Loc: central coast, California

It takes 11 photo judges to change a light bulb. One to change it and 10 to tell you how you could have done it better!