The Covid-19 Threat (Page 2): Medical scientist are not the same as skilled specialists in the treatment of the ill. Medical Scientists are responsible for research and development...

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letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.

FotoHog wrote:

Are you saying that Medical Professionals are no scientists? I guess you have never heard about medical science, have you? . . .

Medical scientist are not the same as skilled specialists in the treatment of the ill. Medical Scientists are responsible for research and development they are really not Physicians . Lets leave it at that so the discussion doesn’t get booted to the attic.

srt101fan

Kmgw9v wrote:

A mistake, now deleted.

Thank you!

FotoHog Loc: on Cloud 9

letmedance wrote:

Medical scientist are not the same as skilled specialists in the treatment of the ill. Medical Scientists are responsible for research and development they are really not Physicians . Lets leave it at that so the discussion doesn’t get booted to the attic.

If you wish to "leave it at that" that's your choice but politicians and prominent Physicians always use the term "science" in their arguments for or against the wearing of protective masks and/or other procedures. I rest my case. . .

srt101fan

fetzler wrote:

I can't say that I agree with a lot of what you say.

1. COVID is caused by a different type of virus that is flu. Indeed, the virus is more similar to viruses that cause the common cold.

2. It takes a long time to asses the true morbidity of a viral disease like COVID or the Flu. The CDC takes several years to determine the morbidity of flu. The same will be true for COVID. In the case of COVID, unfortunately medicine, money and politics are mixed. In such cases truth suffers. It can be said, however, that there have been more cases of COVID that were reported. A large number of these are clinically insignificant going unnoticed by the victim. The number of reported deaths caused by COVID is too large. The health system is financially rewarded for claiming a death as a COVID death. There are credible reports of individuals who died from trauma but tested positive for COVID being reported as COVID deaths. The best estimates of COVID morbidity are in line with a bad flu. The average age of a person who is said to have died from COVID is 78 and the average age of death for all reasons is also 78. In my county 80% of the COVID deaths have been individuals that were confined to a long term care facility and 96% are over 65 (most considerably over 65). The flu in the late 1960s had a nearly identical per capita morbidity in the USA.

3. Flu vaccines are far from 100% effective. In some years the effectiveness may be as low a 30%. Flu vaccines were not generally available before 1947. I do not recall them being sought out by a large fraction of the population before the 1970's or later. There are no vaccines for diseases caused by Corona viruses at this time. If an effective vaccine becomes available it will be a great scientific achievement. The talented scientists and the Pharma companies deserve credit for their technical accomplishments and the President deserves credit for clearing away the bureaucratic obstacles that prevent fast progress. An approved vaccine will be safe and effective as required by law. This does not mean it will be 100% effective.

4. Yes COVID has its unique clinical manifestations in some individuals. It is clear that progress in understanding and treatment is being made. Having said that, the vast majority of affected individuals return to normal life.

5. It is important to not have your life controlled fear. Life is full of risks and some of our most risky activities in life are the ones we cherish the most. Life is risky and no one gets out alive.

6. Nearly all politicians and journalists are scientifically illiterate. Take what they say with a great deal of skepticism. Many are now fear mongering. It is never permissible for the government to abridge the rights of citizens under the bill of rights. Citizens have the right of assembly, speech, practice of religion etc. In Canada, New Zealand and Australia there have been horrific abuse of human rights imposed by their wannabe fascist governments. In Britian a German national was warning rationally and calmly a group to beware of behaviors of the government that were reminiscent of the behaviors of the German Government in the 1930s and 1940s. He was hauled off to jail. In some states, the same can be said of their governments. Folks have a right to work. Government dependency = slavery.

I can't say that I agree with a lot of what you sa... (show quote)

Interesting comments and certainly food for thought. I’m always curious why people can’t agree on the important issues that to me seem to clearly point in one direction.

1. Your first comment says the covid virus is closer to the common cold virus than to the flu virus. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say or how it relates to the issue of the severity of the covid pandemic.

2. I see your point that it’s difficult to get accurate statistics of deaths directly related to covid. You seem to have researched this issue a lot more than I have. I just recently heard one of the “experts” say the death rate from covid is about 1% and the flu about 0.1%. Your source says the “best estimates of COVID morbidity are in line with a bad flu”. Hard to know who’s right, but I find the argument that covid is deadlier more credible.

3. I have no argument with your points on vaccines (well, most of your points, but we don’t want to get political!). But I don’t believe in the all-or-nothing philosophy. The flu vaccine significantly reduces my risk of getting sick; so the lack of a covid vaccine makes that virus more dangerous to me than the flu at this time.

4. You say “the vast majority of affected individuals return to normal life”. But in my estimation, that is not enough of an argument to support downplaying the danger of covid and the need for countermeasures such as masking, distancing and hygiene.

5. Your comments on fear and life’s risk are really irrelevant to the issue of this topic, that is gauging the severity of the covid health risk. But I agree that “fear” is being used inappropriately by politicians and the media. We should be talking about assessing the covid health risk and implementing common sense, practical covid countermeasures.

I can’t really find much in your comments that would change my view that covid is a much more serious threat than the flu. But thank you for your inputs and, as I said, you provide food for thought.

fetzler Loc: North West PA

FotoHog wrote:

Are you saying that Medical Professionals are no scientists? I guess you have never heard about medical science, have you? . . .

I am a scientist and taught in a Medical School for several years. Scientists receive very different training from Medical Students. So indeed, apart from some M.D. Ph.D. folks, medical doctors are not scientists. Medical Doctors are consumers of scientific information but rarely are involved directly in science.

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

srt101fan wrote:

I am seriously seeking inputs to help me understan... (show quote)

Some facts to put things in perspective. About 7 million cases, about 200,000 fatalities. Overall survival survival rate about 97%. Over 70, survival rate 95% under 70, close to 97% 0nder 65 close to 0. Is it a serious disease--of course. But the lockdown and destroying millions of jobs, as well as lives just may have been worse. In other words the cure might have been worse than the disease.In many cases those shutdowns were purely political. ITS TRUMPS FAULT, was all you heard rom the dems and the media (the same thing). Should we still take reasonable precautions--of course. But it still remains that the single thing that people do on a regular, day to day, basis is drive. Do we stop because about 40,000 die each year. TYe carona virus will eventually end. But 40,000 will still die each year in car accidents.

srt101fan

boberic wrote:

Some facts to put things in perspective. About 7 ... (show quote)

Please, no politics. I'm trying to keep focused on the relative seriousness of the covid health threat.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Comparing deaths by vehicle accidents to deaths by covid is a false equivalency. The benefits of driving are, for the overwhelming majority of Americans, huge.

A reasonable, thoughtful person doesn't ignore the science of covid - at least not when one's actions directly affect others.

Yes, I believe it's serious and not comparable to any existing virus or disease because at this time there are still far too many unknowns, including possible long-term effects.

FotoHog Loc: on Cloud 9

fetzler wrote:

I am a scientist and taught in a Medical School for several years. Scientists receive very different training from Medical Students. So indeed, apart from some M.D. Ph.D. folks, medical doctors are not scientists. Medical Doctors are consumers of scientific information but rarely are involved directly in science.

Alright then. Now that we know the definitive difference between a medical scientist and a medical doctor I think we can safely assume that they are on the same page when it comes to medical advice on how to best avoid infection by coronavirus - no? In that case listening to the medical scientist would be the same as listening to the medical doctor which, in essence, validates my original comment.

bigjoe

srt101fan wrote:

I am seriously seeking inputs to help me understan... (show quote)

First I’ve had the virus but I’m healthy 60 year-old with no underlying conditions and it was no worse than any other time I’ve gotten sick that’s my experience only

I had a professor in college used to say do your due diligence do your research there’s a lot of research coming out of serval universities with demographics in-depth studies of this virus you all should be doing your own research and I know that I should tell you but you already know do not rely on the media for information John Hopkins does a lot of great work do your research make your own evaluation

I have a friend who has emphysema it’s Latet stages they should not be exposed to this virus and they’ve been isolated since it started they’re one of the first people to get a flu vaccine because the flu can kill them just as quickly as this virus cam

Do the research the Internet is a great place to research if you have an underlying condition you may be more prone to getting sick really bad but there’s hope there is many treatments that if they catch it early your outcome is very good when you do your research it illuminates the fear wash your hands ladies and gentlemen

PCB_smv

More dangerous because there is no way of knowing how you will be affected. I know of people that have had it with varying degrees of symptoms. I also had a family member, did not believe it was bad, and took all the chances. He was young, no underlying conditions and died on a ventilator. Also no one knows the long term problems you could have, especially for the young.

Bill_de Loc: US

With flu season upon us, and symptoms being similar (I think) how will the bean counters keep track of who has what?

I visit my elderly neighbor on a regular basis. Since two years ago the doctors gave her no more than a couple of days to live, she's not too concerned. Her daughters took her out of the hospital at that time.

She invited me to have Thanksgiving dinner with her and her extended family. That would include her children, spouses, grand children, and great grand children. She was upset that I declined.

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bigjoe

My friend Who has late stage emphysema I haven’t gone and seen for eight months because I’m at a higher risk of bringing the virus to Them it’s just prudent it helps them to stay safe it’s something we need to think about

phlash46 Loc: Westchester County, New York

Linda From Maine wrote:

Comparing deaths by vehicle accidents to deaths by covid is a false equivalency. The benefits of driving are, for the overwhelming majority of Americans, huge.

A reasonable, thoughtful person doesn't ignore the science of covid - at least not when one's actions directly affect others.

Yes, I believe it's serious and not comparable to any existing virus or disease because at this time there are still far too many unknowns, including possible long-term effects.

Po1949

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

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