srt101fan

I am seriously seeking inputs to help me understand the way some people view the covid-19 pandemic, that is, that covid is no worse than the seasonal flu. I am very interested in opinions that challenge my viewpoint, but, please don't respond with any comments that even hint at politics or references to political figures. That's not what this post is about.

How you judge the severity of the threat is a critical starting point for any discussion of the need for and value of countermeasures. I personally believe that the covid-19 threat is to be taken very seriously, especially by old folks like me, and that it is a much greater concern than the flu. I base this on my understanding of the following differences between covid-19 and the flu:

(a) Covid-19 is much more contagious than the flu
(b) Covid-19 is much deadlier than the flu
(c) Covid-19 survivors may have serious long-term health complications whereas flu patients generally don't
(d) We have vaccines for the flu but, at this time, none for covid-19

So, if you don't agree with my position and underlying rationale regarding the severity of the covid-19 pandemic, would you please tell me why you disagree?

If you agree with me, supporting (civil and non-political!) comments would also be of great interest.

Thanks!

srt101fan

For anyone interested, here's a previous topic I started on covid-19 and the value of masking:
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-656094-1.html#11402347

spaceylb Loc: Long Beach, N.Y.

I agree. All I had to see was the overwhelmed hospitals with rows of tractor trailer morgues lining the streets PERIOD!

Ourspolair

Yup - this is serious and so many people don't get. Even some older people who I know, with pre-existing conditions like only having one lung do not seem to understand that if THEY get it, the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Everyone should do their part by minimizing social interactions and wearing a mask to protect themselves and others. Also - get your flu shot so that you don't add to the numbers in clinics and emerg.
Stay safe and well, everyone.

xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada

Agreed...everything that kills humankind prematurely is a serious threat...of course. The question is; how significant is physical threat vs. the threat of the unintended consequences. A delicate balance of keeping both physically and culturally healthy... therein lies the infamous "rub."

Cheers & stay well folks.

David Martin Loc: Cary, NC

The problem is that America is polarized. Any and every issue is turned into a political football. Likewise, the American media is biased. There is no longer unbiased simple reporting of the facts.

And what are the facts? Who knows?
- The number of cases of Covid is unknown for many reasons: unreliable tests, unreliable methods of obtaining samples, unreliable reporting of results by labs, lack of widescreen testing, etc. etc.
- The number of deaths is also unclear; there are suspicions of deliberate misdiagnosing cases both as due to covid, and sometimes not due to covid.

What we do know is that in 2020 a whole lot of people have died, and a lot of other people became ill and have persistent serious symptoms many months later.

In my opinion as a retired physician it is foolhardy to consider covid a hoax or just another flu.

tomad Loc: North Carolina

I totally agree with everything in your post. I am 71 with blood pressure problems, asthma, and borderline blood sugar problems. I have pretty much stayed home for the last 7 months and order everything online, including groceries. I have only been inside one building other than my home in that time and that was a quick masked trip inside a UPS store to return a non functioning item I received from Amazon. No one else has been inside my home besides my wife. I'm going to venture out next week to the North Carolina Mountains, but I am camping with a friend who is also very careful and will get tested before we go. I'm taking along everything I will need including a portable cassette toilet so I don't have to use the campsite restrooms. I take it very seriously.

letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.

I simply continue leading the normal life of a 73 year old, do my gardening, go out in public with a mask when desired. We always dine at home, well maybe once or twice a year we may visit a restaurant. Basically I try to stay in good shape physically and mentally. Mentally is the hardest part as no one likes to feel restricted.
My 15 year old grandson is having a hard time being isolated from his school mates, social interaction is essential to development.

FotoHog Loc: on Cloud 9

I would say pay attention to the scientists and ignore the dumb rhetoric of those who claim to know better than professional health cared experts with lifelong experience in the field.

tramsey Loc: Texas

I agree with the o.p. that covid- 19 is much more serious than any flu that we have seen in the past including 1918 for all the reasons that he listed plus the fact that it is new and we know so little about it. The scientists learn something new and have to change how we react.
I go over the top on precautions. I do all the grocery shopping because of my wife's health problems. I limit my shopping to twice a week that includes picking up her prescriptions which she takes twenty two. She has only one lung, diabetes, asthma, severe allergies and high blood pressure just to name a few problems. I am strong and healthy. My doc gives me A+ on all my lab reports. Because she has so many problems I do not want to add to them so when I get home, my clothes immediately go into the washer and I go into the shower. She puts the groceries away. I use hand sanitizers several times when I'm out and in the house daily clean the things that we regularly touch, door knobs, light switches, telephones, remotes, etc. We both got our flu shots a week ago.
So far neither of us has even had a cold this season. We are going to be over the top cautious.

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

I don't fit the menu for pre-existing conditions, still do jobs (as a carpenter/contractor) and am in pretty decent physical condition. As such I'm not very concerned about contracting the virus...the only time I pay attention is when I don my mask in public, which I do out of respect for others. If we weren't so fearful as a culture, took precautions because of necessity and not because of blaring headlines...I think we'd be better off. For example, the Chinese Disneyland very close to the epicenter of the outbreak is up and running, yet the Southern California Disneyland just laid off 28,000 workers with no end in sight for the shutdown. It's a tough problem.

fetzler Loc: North West PA

I can't say that I agree with a lot of what you say.

1. COVID is caused by a different type of virus that is flu. Indeed, the virus is more similar to viruses that cause the common cold.

2. It takes a long time to asses the true morbidity of a viral disease like COVID or the Flu. The CDC takes several years to determine the morbidity of flu. The same will be true for COVID. In the case of COVID, unfortunately medicine, money and politics are mixed. In such cases truth suffers. It can be said, however, that there have been more cases of COVID that were reported. A large number of these are clinically insignificant going unnoticed by the victim. The number of reported deaths caused by COVID is too large. The health system is financially rewarded for claiming a death as a COVID death. There are credible reports of individuals who died from trauma but tested positive for COVID being reported as COVID deaths. The best estimates of COVID morbidity are in line with a bad flu. The average age of a person who is said to have died from COVID is 78 and the average age of death for all reasons is also 78. In my county 80% of the COVID deaths have been individuals that were confined to a long term care facility and 96% are over 65 (most considerably over 65). The flu in the late 1960s had a nearly identical per capita morbidity in the USA.

3. Flu vaccines are far from 100% effective. In some years the effectiveness may be as low a 30%. Flu vaccines were not generally available before 1947. I do not recall them being sought out by a large fraction of the population before the 1970's or later. There are no vaccines for diseases caused by Corona viruses at this time. If an effective vaccine becomes available it will be a great scientific achievement. The talented scientists and the Pharma companies deserve credit for their technical accomplishments and the President deserves credit for clearing away the bureaucratic obstacles that prevent fast progress. An approved vaccine will be safe and effective as required by law. This does not mean it will be 100% effective.

4. Yes COVID has its unique clinical manifestations in some individuals. It is clear that progress in understanding and treatment is being made. Having said that, the vast majority of affected individuals return to normal life.

5. It is important to not have your life controlled fear. Life is full of risks and some of our most risky activities in life are the ones we cherish the most. Life is risky and no one gets out alive.

6. Nearly all politicians and journalists are scientifically illiterate. Take what they say with a great deal of skepticism. Many are now fear mongering. It is never permissible for the government to abridge the rights of citizens under the bill of rights. Citizens have the right of assembly, speech, practice of religion etc. In Canada, New Zealand and Australia there have been horrific abuse of human rights imposed by their wannabe fascist governments. In Britian a German national was warning rationally and calmly a group to beware of behaviors of the government that were reminiscent of the behaviors of the German Government in the 1930s and 1940s. He was hauled off to jail. In some states, the same can be said of their governments. Folks have a right to work. Government dependency = slavery.

letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.

I would disagree, I prefer to listen to the Medical professionals.

letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.

We have been given mixed and confusing messages from the Covid team, the doctors like Fausi have gone from no to yes more than once. I personally started masking in Taiwan around the first of the year, and had my temperature taken everywhere but convince stores like 7-11.

FotoHog Loc: on Cloud 9

Are you saying that Medical Professionals are no scientists? I guess you have never heard about medical science, have you? . . .