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Why I don't like Adobe's subscription plan
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May 9, 2019 16:23:26   #
ta5567
 
The trolls already started. For me the key is the statement that if you stop paying the subscription you forfeit the ability to edit, he said almost blackmail, I say it is blackmail.

You can purchase what you like but as long as they blackmail to keep their product, I will not use it.

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May 9, 2019 16:37:22   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
ta5567 wrote:
The trolls already started. For me the key is the statement that if you stop paying the subscription you forfeit the ability to edit, he said almost blackmail, I say it is blackmail.

You can purchase what you like but as long as they blackmail to keep their product, I will not use it.


Yes, if you stop paying you lose the ability to edit.
How often do you re-edit your old images? Is this likely to be a significant problem?
You can always edit your images using the original file with your new software. You will have to start from scratch but you will be using updated algorithms in the newer software.

Some people will be impacted by this but I don't think this will be a problem for everyone.

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May 9, 2019 16:38:40   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Don’t pay your electric, gas or water bill and they will shut you off. Is that blackmail? You can access your files but using the editing tools is a pay to play proposition... Seems fair to me...

ta5567 wrote:
The trolls already started. For me the key is the statement that if you stop paying the subscription you forfeit the ability to edit, he said almost blackmail, I say it is blackmail.

You can purchase what you like but as long as they blackmail to keep their product, I will not use it.

Reply
 
 
May 9, 2019 17:20:59   #
Beenthere
 
I think a very important issue is not being addressed here. I work with audio files professionally and will not subscribe to ANY online dependent editing software for either audio or photography (photography is a hobby for me). The simple fact is I don't appreciate any software company controlling what I do. Say you move to a remote area with little or NO internet access, but you still have electricity and you want to pursue your hobby in peace and quiet without the distractions of society? You take your computer so you can process the photos you are taking out in the wild.., but alas! you can not because you have no access to the software. Electricity can be easily dealt with by using batteries or portable generators.., but you're still screwed with no internet. Say you've fallen on hard times and you failed to pay your internet provider's monthly fee. The service is cut off but you still want to work on your photos until you are able to pay the dang bill and re-subscribe. I see nothing but frustration here, so I'm with jIg1000 in opposing these services for different but never the less, equally important, reasons. "Big Brother" is slowly creeping into our lives.., and It's way past 1984.

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May 9, 2019 17:25:36   #
DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX
 
If you rent a product or a service you are entitled to use that product or service as long as you make rent payments. Stop paying and your rights end.

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May 9, 2019 17:30:52   #
AndyGarcia
 
I agree with the OP.

I stopped using Lightroom when I could not load LR6 which I had bought. Their support was terrible. I don't want to be referred to a "user forum" to make a product I've purchased load on my computer.

Subscriptions for software irritate me. It is a way of printing money. Now I use ON12019 and AlienSkinExposure4. Love 'em.

I don't miss LR at all. I certainly don't miss Adobe's set up to deflect support to "user forums".

Now I await the "pile on" of Adobe fanboys and girls. LOL. Pura Vida.

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May 9, 2019 17:34:31   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
You load the Adobe software on your computer. I believe it occasionally verifies that you are still authorized to use it all.

Part of what I believe led to the pirating of software was when Microsoft back in the 80s allowed business users to use the software at home without additional charges. It was a great way to capture a large user base but I feel it led to software not being valued and a strong resistance for people to pay much of anything for pc software... your opinion may vary...

Beenthere wrote:
I think a very important issue is not being addressed here. I work with audio files professionally and will not subscribe to ANY online dependent editing software for either audio or photography (photography is a hobby for me). The simple fact is I don't appreciate any software company controlling what I do. Say you move to a remote area with little or NO internet access, but you still have electricity and you want to pursue your hobby in peace and quiet without the distractions of society? You take your computer so you can process the photos you are taking out in the wild.., but alas! you can not because you have no access to the software. Electricity can be easily dealt with by using batteries or portable generators.., but you're still screwed with no internet. Say you've fallen on hard times and you failed to pay your internet provider's monthly fee. The service is cut off but you still want to work on your photos until you are able to pay the dang bill and re-subscribe. I see nothing but frustration here, so I'm with jIg1000 in opposing these services for different but never the less, equally important, reasons. "Big Brother" is slowly creeping into our lives.., and It's way past 1984.
I think a very important issue is not being addres... (show quote)

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May 9, 2019 17:54:01   #
Beenthere
 
DavidPine wrote:
If you rent a product or a service you are entitled to use that product or service as long as you make rent payments. Stop paying and your rights end.


So, it's simple don't RENT. Find software that you pay for once and it stays on your computer. Most companies will offer updates to single purchase users. I believe Adobe just got lazy and found an easy way to own you while making a few more bucks.

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May 9, 2019 18:01:16   #
smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL
 
It is a perfectly reasonable and valid decision to decide not to go with subscription based software. Its an equally valid and reasonable decision to go with subscription software, or open-source software (GIMP comes to mind), so something else. Its also reasonable to buy a specific implementation of software and hardware and use it until the hardware fails. And then to purchase a new implementation with new hardware and the latest software version.

This could amortize to a very reasonable number with 5 year depreciation. Take the software portion of that amortized cost and compare it to the subscription price. The costs aren't that different.

Software vendors offer products as best advantages their business (although sometimes the can act counterproductively). If we don't like it we don't buy it or don't subscribe to it. As to the costs of changing consider that everything it produces is widely accessible by other products. The RAW format is proprietary to your camera mfr.; the PSD file is proprietary to Adobe but multiple editors for both are available. So there isn't any lock in of the kind MS was so famous for. But forcing an end user to switch from a permanent license model to a subscription model (especially one that has non-obvious network requirements) is not a good idea and ultimately bad for their business. I intensely dislike this, unless the vendor is willing to support the last permanent license version for a long time - 5 years. Large system commercial software companies will do this - but its typically very expensive.

Being concerned about loosing functionality without the Internet is also a valid reason to make purchasing choices.

Ignore what everyone says - buy what works best for you.

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May 9, 2019 18:11:51   #
jburlinson Loc: Austin, TX
 
jlg1000 wrote:
Photoshop has become such an amazing and extremely powerful piece of software...


This little nugget was buried in the OP. Couldn't agree more.

For this amazing and extremely powerful piece of software, I pay $10 a month, and I get Lightroom, which is equally amazing if not quite as powerful, to boot.

For that, I count myself lucky. And I thank Adobe sincerely for its development and maintenance.

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May 9, 2019 18:18:44   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
jlg1000 wrote:
There has been a long discussion on why to go with the Adobe LR/PS subscription plan or why not to.

I'd like to offer a different view on this matter... on why I really don't like the Adobe subscription and why I do not recommend to anyone to follow this path.

No, it is not for the money... $10/month for the LR/PS subsciption, or $69 por ON1, or $50 for Affinity are always pennies next to the cost of photographic gear or the cost of the time we invest in this hobby or profession.

It is because the real reason because Adobe choose to *force* their customers to go to a subscription plan. The subscription is NOT an option (as for Capture One), but is MUST.

Adobe was facing a very severe competition, not only from other players, but specially from themselves. Photoshop has become such an amazing and extremely powerful piece of software that there is no real need to purchase an upgrade each year, at least for the majority of it's users.

If someone invested $700 in Photoshop, he or she would think twice (or trice) before throwing $300 for an upgrade. And this was the key problem: when a piece of software gets so enormous like Photoshop (or MS Word, or Autocad), it is increasingly difficult and expensive to add more features and improvements *that can be sold for a high price*. The problem is: how do you improve something that is already perceived as almost perfect?

Would you really pay $300 for some bugfixes and some new features you do not readily use?

The other problem is that Photoshop started in 1987... yes it is that old. Many of it concepts are hardcoded in the oldest lines of code, and the original programmers have left Adobe long since. I've already faced this problem in my line of work: you have a some huge program, and you reach a point where you have to start from scratch, because it is so complex that touching somethings makes fall the rest apart like a house of cards. And if the original developers are gone, you are dead in the water. You only option is to fix, fix, add, fix, add, wrap, fix, add ... it gets harder and harder. There is a theoretical curve for that... just google it.The cost goes up, the improvements go down.

Adobe has already a more modern product which is not nearly as powerful as Photoshop: Lightroom. Other players have chosen the newer path of adding non destructive photo retouch features to the RAW developing workflow (Capture One, ON1, DXO labs, etc.), but if Adobe went that path, it would necessary stop selling Photoshop. Why pay $700 for PS if LR already had 90% of the features an average photografer would need. THEY HAD TO THROTTLE the addition of new additions to LR, like masks, layers, and so on.

So they decided to go the subscription plan... now all the risk is on the customer!! The customer purchases the subscription and forgets about it (... its just 10 bucks a month ...) and Adobe is free to push the updates THEY want. They no longer need to convince the public to buy an expensive upgrade. And if you choose to cancel the subscription, you lose the ability to re-edit all your past photos, it's almost blackmail.

If you look at Adobe's changelog, most of the upgrades are rather minor (new camera compatibility, bugfixes, some menu regrouping some minor new features). Honestly, would you pay $300 a year for them?

The real reason behind the seemingly low price of the subscription is not they they are nice and cute people... it is simply because in a free market, *the price is set by the market itself *and it happens that LR+PS is not more worth than those $10 per month. This is the ugly truth. Capture One charges $20 per month for the OPTIONAL subscription... just because they can. Adobe cannot.

The other software vendors are forced to make great leaps between versions, or else their customers will not pay the upgrade fee. And it shows: look at the differences between ON1 2018 and 2019, or Capture One 11 and 12.

The same happened to MS Office: I have the subscription plan (it makes sense to my business... $99/year for 5 PCs), since 2017... and I really don't find any significant improvements (besides new fancy icons) between the 2017 and the 2019 software. It's just incremental.

This is the reason because I don't like subscription plans: because it is the last resource of a company to reduce their development costs at the expense of innovation. That is exactly was Adobe did.

I just don't want to play their game.
There has been a long discussion on why to go with... (show quote)

Of course one had to pay for upgrades whenever they came out, that's one reason the subscription plan is so nice, it saves a lot compared to the old days! And upgrades did never cost 300 bucks, but 199 (still expensive), I had PS 5 (not CS5) and got every upgrade since, once I got CS5, I upgraded to CS5 extended (again $199) and since then I moved to CC and loving it and saving a bundle on the way!

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May 9, 2019 18:22:32   #
clickety
 
Gene51 wrote:
Yes I can if I want to! I understand it's another couple of wasted minutes . . . but I don't care!

BTW, is that the only thing you took away from my rant?

C'mon, really, didn't you at least smile at my "old school" Photoshop setup?


Please send me 49 seconds 41 for your first response and 8 for the second thank you.😋

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May 9, 2019 18:25:01   #
cochese
 
I have CS3, the total package, forget what it's called but it has ebry Adobe program included. I use PS from that occasionally. I also use Gimp. Use what you like. I pirchased CS3 and have never upgraded, it has more bells and whistles than I will ever use and I would reason that a pro on CS3 and CC editing the same photo you would not be able to discern a difference in the end product. Let the trolls come

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May 9, 2019 18:26:35   #
rcarol
 
Cameraman wrote:
I think everyone is missing something important here.
One of the primary reasons was that there was tremendous loss of revenue for Adobe because illegal copies were available made by some hackers releasing keys and allowing folks to copy the programs like Photoshop for free.

Adobe was losing millions of dollars via these tricks. )I understand - I used to work for a small software company and this was a huge problem for us too.)

Now that copying has stopped because Adobe can check if you are a real subscriber.

It also makes it easy for them to upgrade the clients with changes and improvements to the program instead of having to create a whole package which is expensive and also expensive for clients to purchase.

Some of the changes may seem minor to one user but may be extremely important to others e.g. support for RAW for a new camera that one just purchased and needed Photoshop to support this new version of the RAW files..
I think everyone is missing something important he... (show quote)


You bring up some very valid points.

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May 9, 2019 18:45:06   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
...whatever...I use and need the software and that's that.

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