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Mirrorless full frame cameras
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Nov 27, 2022 17:06:38   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
tcanzano wrote:
I am upgrading to a mirrorless full-frame camera, but I have read and listened to different opinions about which camera lets you use third-party lenses. I listened to a video by Tony Northrup and he felt Cannon is restricting third-party manufacturers from producing lenses for their cameras. They said the other manufacturers are infringing on a pattern and threatened a lawsuit. So which manufacturers give you the best choices for third-party lenses?


It is only Canon who is restricting third party manufacturers from making RF-mount autofocus lenses for their R-series cameras. There are many manual focus lenses being made for them.

Sony, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic all have at least some third party lens options. Fuji and Olympus don't make full frame cameras, so you really are down to choice of:

- Canon (RF-mount)
- Nikon (Z-mount)
- Panasonic & Leica (L-mount)
- Sony (E-mount)

Sony full frame mirrorless E-mount cameras have been around the longest... around 9 years... giving them time to build their own lens system. Sony also welcomed third party lenses, which some say is because their own lens development was lagging for a long time (it's now pretty good). As a result, B&H Photo lists 129 full frame, autofocusing E-mount lenses (there is some duplication). Those include 41 Sony lenses, 28 Sigma, 16 Samyang/Rokinon, 12 Tamron and 5 Zeiss, as well as some smaller numbers from several others.

Panasonic and Leica have teamed up to build the new L-mount system (Panasonic partners with Olympus on Micro 4/3, too). Both are offering their own cameras as well as sharing and offering interchangeable lenses. Sigma is also a part of this alliance and actually makes the majority of the lenses for the system so far: 29 full frame, autofocus. Panasonic makes 13 lenses, Leica makes 10.

Nikon's mirrorless Z-series are relatively new, too... and currently there are 35 full frame autofocus lenses listed by B&H Photo. 27 are from Nikon themselves. Viltrox offers 4, Yongnuo makes 2, while TTartisans and Tamron each offer one lens.

I don't know that this is truly a "deal killer", if Canon's cameras really appeal to you. There are already 29 Canon full frame, autofocus RF lenses. The new R6 Mark II, original R6, R5 and R3 offer a lot of options and a range of prices. They all use a very similar high performance AF system that some feel is the best or close to it. While the total numbers aren't as large, Canon has a pretty good array of RF lenses already, covering a pretty wide array of focal lengths, as well as ranging from very affordable to super pricey. Plus you can easily adapt any EF (DSLR) lens for use on the R-series mirrorless. There have been some 125 million Canon EF lenses made (plus a lot of 3rd party lenses made for EF mount). Canon management claims they will grow the RF mount system to around 50 lenses in the next two or three years. Before they started discontinuing them to devote most of their efforts to the new mirrorless system, Canon had around 90 EF/EF-S lenses. Only Nikon offered a larger number of lens models, over 100 at one point. They too have been discontinuing their F-mount (DSLR) lenses in favor of the new Z-mount for the mirrorless.

I would recommend you make a list of what lenses you plan to buy now or in the near future. You should do the same thing regarding the camera features you want. Then look closely at each of the four systems to see which offers what you need and want. Compare prices, sizes, weights... then once you have narrowed it down to some specific items search for some reviews.

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Nov 27, 2022 17:09:28   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Nearly none of the Lensbaby and Venus RF lenses are autofocus lenses. So yes they dont compete with Canon RF lenses. Canon wants no real third-party lens competition. It is Canon's choice to have it their way, even if it costs them some Canon R buyers, which is happening already around the world.

Sometimes big, successful companies can lose sight of how best to grow their base in the long term , in a grab for more profits in the short term. Canon believes in their business model, but Canon has made business mistakes crippling themselves in the past. Time will tell if this is another of those bad moves. Canon will survive and thrive, even while its competitors will benefit here.

Cheers and best to you.
Nearly none of the Lensbaby and Venus RF lenses ar... (show quote)


In spite of those cripples Canon ultimately wins and maintains a dominating lead over competitors.
The intelligentsia said Canon was doomed for going EF yet because of going EF they completely destroyed Nikon who now struggles to hold a back and forth 3rd and 4th place position in the market and still is behind in the Mirrorless market with a second rate AF compared to Canon and Sony, even with their Z9.
Time will tell here.

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Nov 27, 2022 18:03:01   #
Jsykes
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Canon has not allowed any third party AF lens makers to make RF AF lenses.
The source is dozens of posts or more ALL over the internet, easily Googled.
Very hard to miss.


And I found the opposite comments form Tamron and Sigma say the opposite, try googling it
'
Comments on google are easy to find, definitive and official Canon statements.......... not so much.

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Nov 27, 2022 18:14:20   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Jsykes wrote:
And I found the opposite comments form Tamron and Sigma say the opposite, try googling it
'
Comments on google are easy to find, definitive and official Canon statements.......... not so much.


No need for official from Canon.

https://photorumors.com/2022/08/28/viltrox-we-have-been-told-by-canon-to-stop-selling-all-rf-mount-products/

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Nov 27, 2022 19:43:18   #
tcanzano Loc: Bristol, NH
 
I spent a lot of time listening to reviews on the Sony A7III and they all gave it excellent reviews. I pretty sure I am going to go with that Sony.

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Nov 27, 2022 19:56:32   #
Hemp Imagery
 
I am currently using a tamron 70-200 f2.8, with FTZ2 adaptor, on both Z50 & Z9

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Nov 27, 2022 20:03:42   #
tcanzano Loc: Bristol, NH
 
There is no adapter needed with the Sony

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Nov 28, 2022 00:13:29   #
johnec Loc: Lancaster county, PA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The EOS R5 has changed how we think about mirrorless, how we think about photography, how we think about life.


Can’t quite decide whether your degree is in philosophy or B.S…but your posts are certainly entertaining 😊

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Nov 28, 2022 09:32:33   #
Dan5000 Loc: New Hampshire
 
PHRubin wrote:
Canon has no licensing agreement for their RF mount (with electronics). Since I use Canon, I use the EF-RF adapter which allows me the use of all EF and EF-S compatible lenses from all manufacturers on my R series body.


I also use the EF-RF adaptor on my EOS R. I have Canon EF and EFS lenses as well as Sigma lenses. I only recently bought an RF 100 - 400 lens, only because I thought it was a good buy. No problem using any of these lenses.

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Nov 28, 2022 09:50:36   #
AntonioReyna Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
Yes, the EF lenses and MOST third party lenses work very well with the adapter.

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Nov 28, 2022 11:13:40   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
tcanzano wrote:
I am upgrading to a mirrorless full-frame camera, but I have read and listened to different opinions about which camera lets you use third-party lenses. I listened to a video by Tony Northrup and he felt Cannon is restricting third-party manufacturers from producing lenses for their cameras. They said the other manufacturers are infringing on a pattern and threatened a lawsuit. So which manufacturers give you the best choices for third-party lenses?


Sony has the most native and third party lenses at the moment...adapter not needed.

Reply
 
 
Nov 28, 2022 11:32:04   #
gwilliams6
 
amfoto1 wrote:
It is only Canon who is restricting third party manufacturers from making RF-mount autofocus lenses for their R-series cameras. There are many manual focus lenses being made for them.

Sony, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic all have at least some third party lens options. Fuji and Olympus don't make full frame cameras, so you really are down to choice of:

- Canon (RF-mount)
- Nikon (Z-mount)
- Panasonic & Leica (L-mount)
- Sony (E-mount)

Sony full frame mirrorless E-mount cameras have been around the longest... around 9 years... giving them time to build their own lens system. Sony also welcomed third party lenses, which some say is because their own lens development was lagging for a long time (it's now pretty good). As a result, B&H Photo lists 129 full frame, autofocusing E-mount lenses (there is some duplication). Those include 41 Sony lenses, 28 Sigma, 16 Samyang/Rokinon, 12 Tamron and 5 Zeiss, as well as some smaller numbers from several others.

Panasonic and Leica have teamed up to build the new L-mount system (Panasonic partners with Olympus on Micro 4/3, too). Both are offering their own cameras as well as sharing and offering interchangeable lenses. Sigma is also a part of this alliance and actually makes the majority of the lenses for the system so far: 29 full frame, autofocus. Panasonic makes 13 lenses, Leica makes 10.

Nikon's mirrorless Z-series are relatively new, too... and currently there are 35 full frame autofocus lenses listed by B&H Photo. 27 are from Nikon themselves. Viltrox offers 4, Yongnuo makes 2, while TTartisans and Tamron each offer one lens.

I don't know that this is truly a "deal killer", if Canon's cameras really appeal to you. There are already 29 Canon full frame, autofocus RF lenses. The new R6 Mark II, original R6, R5 and R3 offer a lot of options and a range of prices. They all use a very similar high performance AF system that some feel is the best or close to it. While the total numbers aren't as large, Canon has a pretty good array of RF lenses already, covering a pretty wide array of focal lengths, as well as ranging from very affordable to super pricey. Plus you can easily adapt any EF (DSLR) lens for use on the R-series mirrorless. There have been some 125 million Canon EF lenses made (plus a lot of 3rd party lenses made for EF mount). Canon management claims they will grow the RF mount system to around 50 lenses in the next two or three years. Before they started discontinuing them to devote most of their efforts to the new mirrorless system, Canon had around 90 EF/EF-S lenses. Only Nikon offered a larger number of lens models, over 100 at one point. They too have been discontinuing their F-mount (DSLR) lenses in favor of the new Z-mount for the mirrorless.

I would recommend you make a list of what lenses you plan to buy now or in the near future. You should do the same thing regarding the camera features you want. Then look closely at each of the four systems to see which offers what you need and want. Compare prices, sizes, weights... then once you have narrowed it down to some specific items search for some reviews.
It is only Canon who is restricting third party ma... (show quote)


Just a current fact here:

There are over 200 mirrorless E-mount Lenses from Sony, Sigma, Tamron, Samyang/Rokinon, Zeiss, Tokina, Yongnuo, Viltrox, Meike, and others. No other brand of mirrorless camera comes close to Sony in that total of mirrorless lenses available. Not talking about DSLR-designed lenses that Canon and Nikon have in their stable.

Most folks aren't keen on waiting years for Canon to fill out its Canon-only RF lens lineup with either cheaper kit-quality RF lenses or expensive top-quality RF lenses. People with all ranges of budgets have mirrorless cameras and mirrorless lenses they want to buy and use now, and photos to take now, not later.

Those considerations matter to many when choosing a ready and complete mirrorless system to buy into now, not later. It isn't just the relative low number of top quality RF lenses available right now today, but the cost of these top quality RF lenses vs the vast number and lower cost of many top quality E-mount lenses available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony_E-mount_lenses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_third-party_Sony_E-mount_lenses

How good are many of these third-party E-mount lenses? Well here is SAB's MTF-Standard sharpness test results on over 190 E-mount lenses, tested on the toughest platform, resolving the 61mp sensor of the Sony A7RIV. Sharpness is just one criteria when choosing any lens. Other considerations are color, bokeh, AF performance, CA, flare ,size, weight, price, etc. But these sharpness test results are a good place to start. As SAB states, on lower than 61mp sensors, these lens sharpness results would be even closer. As you see in the test results, third-party lens makers produce many excellent top quality E-mount lenses, equal and in some cases even better than some OEM Sony lenses.

https://sonyalpha.blog/2019/11/10/which-lenses-to-maximise-the-potential-of-the-sony-a7riv/

I currently have three of the best Sony cameras, A7RIV, A1, A7SIII ,and I currently have 13 top-quality E-mount lenses covering 10mm to 600mm from Sony, Sigma and Tamron.

Full disclosure, I kept one Canon lens the specialty Canon TS 17mm f4 Tilt-Shift lens, which I use with an MC-11 adaptor (it is a manual focus lens).

Cheers and best to you.

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Nov 28, 2022 11:50:12   #
hwb Loc: IL
 
All the big 3 companies make great cameras and lenses. I wanted to get into the mirrorless cameras also. I have a Nikon system. I researched all the specs, listened to all the debates except one, myself. When I teach students learning photography, the first question out of the box is "what camera should I buy?". My answer is which one feels good to you. Does it fit your hand? Does the weight feel comfortable? Is it a camera that will grow with you?

I for got those first steps. I was mad at Nikon for making me wait so long for lenses, and the new "Z9". So I jumped ship. The camera I purchased was tech. great!!! The lenses were wonderful!!! I hated it! The camera was too small for my hands. It was super lite. The system felt like a toy to me. I made myself work with it for 4 months. I couldn't take it any longer. I found a buyer, packed it all up, and sold it. I picked up my old Nikon and went merrily on my way.

Hope this helps.

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Nov 28, 2022 12:02:57   #
gwilliams6
 
hwb wrote:
All the big 3 companies make great cameras and lenses. I wanted to get into the mirrorless cameras also. I have a Nikon system. I researched all the specs, listened to all the debates except one, myself. When I teach students learning photography, the first question out of the box is "what camera should I buy?". My answer is which one feels good to you. Does it fit your hand? Does the weight feel comfortable? Is it a camera that will grow with you?

I for got those first steps. I was mad at Nikon for making me wait so long for lenses, and the new "Z9". So I jumped ship. The camera I purchased was tech. great!!! The lenses were wonderful!!! I hated it! The camera was too small for my hands. It was super lite. The system felt like a toy to me. I made myself work with it for 4 months. I couldn't take it any longer. I found a buyer, packed it all up, and sold it. I picked up my old Nikon and went merrily on my way.

Hope this helps.
All the big 3 companies make great cameras and len... (show quote)


I understand everyone has different ergonomic likes and dislikes. I am a big guy with big hands and used big-bodied DSLRs from both Nikon and Canon for decades.

I moved over to Sony in 2017 and I am totally used to the smaller form factor for their bodies. Sony listened to pros and have improved the ergonomics and grips of their bodies. I am happy to lose the size and weight of those bricks of DSLRs I used . No turning back for me to any DSLR or any integrated grip mirrorless either. I like having the option to use my bodies with or without an additional battery grip, adding bulk and weight, especially when I have an all day shoot, or a long trek to get to a location. And I love and use all the distinct mirrorless advantages over DSLRs.

Everyone is different and what works for you, works for you. Use what works for you and be happy.

Cheers and best to you

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Nov 28, 2022 12:04:41   #
kvanhook Loc: Oriental, NC
 
Sony! In body image stabilization. Light weight. Can adapt Nikon lenses if you have any. Did I say Sony?

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