For beginners, M or AUTO? (Page 16): Everyone should eventually understand that each element in the ‘triangle’ tends to have two effects - one that relates to the ‘triangle’ and...

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

Everyone should eventually understand that each element in the ‘triangle’ tends to have two effects - one that relates to the ‘triangle’ and another one: shutter speed also affects reaction to motion, aperture also affects DoF and brokeh, and ISO also tends to affect IQ.

User ID

MDI Mainer wrote:

This is 2022. What is a stick shift? What is onion skin? What is a mimeograph? What is a switchboard?

Not only year 2022 but equally significant this is Page 16. Nothing contained in the last dozen or so pages really matters.

You got the Triangle Cult, you got the Wobble Stick Wackos, and they all been slogging along waaaaaay past page three or four ... as if their additional posts were of any further use.

Then theres a few that first jump in this late in the thread. If they had actually read it, they could see that its all been already said, ten times over, before they add their "new" pearls of wisdom.

So yes again, welcome to 2022 and to page 16 .... Party Harty !

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

User ID wrote:

Not only year 2022 but equally significant this is... (show quote)

In the immortal words of Irma Thomas “Nobody wants to hear nobody’s troubles and nobody wants their troubles left unheard”
https://youtu.be/5YoOWphUxmo

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

EJMcD wrote:

Aperture, Shutter speed, and ISO... learn and understand their relationship. Anyone with average intelligence can and will get more out of their photography with that knowledge. It's not rocket science. IMO beginners should start with a fully adjustable, all manual camera. My first SLR was a Yashica J-P..

I think most people think that others should learn the same way they did. I understand how as “serious” photographers we might think everyone should understand all the controls and I agree that having that knowledge can open more avenues in the creative process. I started there but when I started the Canon A-1 was brand new and I certainly couldn’t afford it. We pretty much had to learn that way. But I really don’t think it’s necessary or even beneficial to start there. I know people that win awards with cellphone shots. I have a good friend that shoots everything in auto and has no desire to learn more. She has a good eye and pays attention to composition and her stuff is better than half of what’s posted in the gallery here. If she ever decides she wants to know more I’ll teach her. The point is, yes for MY photography the knowledge is important and I think it can be valuable to anyone that wants to get to the next level but there’s no need to start there.

BebuLamar

SuperflyTNT wrote:

I think most people think that others should learn... (show quote)

I just don't wanna hear anybody says I got stuck on auto. She does OK with auto should keep using it.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-418415-1.html You don't need M. But if you want to learn do it from the beginning

R.G. Loc: Scotland

SuperflyTNT wrote:

.....I have a good friend that shoots everything in auto and has no desire to learn more. She has a good eye and pays attention to composition......

You're right - content is by far the most important aspect of photo-taking. The trouble is, Auto can be caught out, and apart from that Auto may not give the optimum mix of settings, especially if the shooter had a specific creative vision in mind. That may be no big deal for an amateur but as a general rule, professionals have to be more wary of slip-ups. Having said that, it seems to me that an informed choice from the Scene mode options could greatly reduce the chances of a spoiled shot.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

R.G. wrote:

You're right - content is by far the most important aspect of photo-taking. The trouble is, Auto can be caught out, and apart from that Auto may not give the optimum mix of settings, especially if the shooter had a specific creative vision in mind. That may be no big deal for an amateur but as a general rule, professionals have to be more wary of slip-ups. Having said that, it seems to me that an informed choice from the Scene mode options could greatly reduce the chances of a spoiled shot.

Today at the Pentax Forum, a user wanted to use the ‘monochrome’ means of “custom” developing to make a JPG. It turned out that a setting other that ‘Auto’ was needed to get there. Sometimes exploring other settings is needed for a user to get what he wants.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

BebuLamar wrote:

I just don't wanna hear anybody says I got stuck on auto. She does OK with auto should keep using it.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-418415-1.html You don't need M. But if you want to learn do it from the beginning

And I have yet to see anyone explain to me why.

petrochemist Loc: UK

SuperflyTNT wrote:

I think most people think that others should learn the same way they did.

I think for many it's worse than that. They think the way they learnt is the only way!

With my first SLR the only shutter speed I could set directly was for flash. Everyday shooting you set the aperture (& EC/iso) and it chose the shutter speed. It displayed the chosen shutter speed in the viewfinder so this rarely restricted normal shooting.
NB The relationship between aperture & shutter speed was fully apparent without needing manual mode.

This has probably influenced my prefered shooting mode on later cameras (Av), but I'm rather glad to have other modes available. The (semi) automatic modes don't work well when light levels drop below the meters sensitivity. In some rare situations I'm more concerned about shutter speed than DOF so T is the most convenient option.
Program mode seems a bit restrictive to me on most cameras as I like having a wheel available for EC (but it's too easily knocked on my A7ii)

As long as the other options are explored in a reasonable time frame beginners can learn quickly with any mode.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

petrochemist wrote:

I think for many it's worse than that. They think the way they learnt is the only way!

With my first SLR the only shutter speed I could set directly was for flash. Everyday shooting you set the aperture (& EC/iso) and it chose the shutter speed. It displayed the chosen shutter speed in the viewfinder so this rarely restricted normal shooting.
NB The relationship between aperture & shutter speed was fully apparent without needing manual mode.

That is exactly how I began with the Pentax “ME/SE” in 1979.
I have always been more interested in shutter speed than in aperture, so I adjusted the aperture until I was satisfied with the shutter speed reported {by LEDs}
Four years later, I purchased a “Super Program” which allowed me to set the shutter speed, so immediately I switched to the equivalent of shutter priority, and have been there ever since.

BebuLamar

petrochemist wrote:

I think for many it's worse than that. They think ... (show quote)

Which SLR was that? Pentax ME?

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

petrochemist wrote:

I think for many it's worse than that. They think ... (show quote)

Back in those days I always thought aperture priority made more sense just because it was a lot easier to turn the aperture when looking through the viewfinder than fiddling with the shutter speed on top. I also shoot that way most if the time. I think people get locked into thinking “shutter speed is important so I need shutter priority” or those that say “I shoot manual so I’m in control”. The way I see it I’m in complete control in aperture priority, (or in any semi-automate mode). When I select an aperture I’m also controlling the shutter speed. I can easily “select” a shutter speed by changing the aperture or ISO.

BebuLamar

SuperflyTNT wrote:

Back in those days I always thought aperture prior... (show quote)

I think it's easier to make an aperture priority camera than shutter priority camera. I mean MAKE. As far as use, some prefer shutter priority some prefer aperture priority.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

BebuLamar wrote:

I think it's easier to make an aperture priority camera than shutter priority camera. I mean MAKE. As far as use, some prefer shutter priority some prefer aperture priority.

Yes, for aperture priority, the camera body had to control the shutter speed, which basically was a body function anyway.

For shutter priority, the camera body had to control the aperture, which is basically a function of the lens.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

BebuLamar wrote:

I think it's easier to make an aperture priority camera than shutter priority camera. I mean MAKE. As far as use, some prefer shutter priority some prefer aperture priority.

It doesn’t matter so much with digital and command dials. As for preference, yes some prefer one or the other. No matter the preference I can’t see how changing the shutter speed dial could ever be easier than changing the aperture control ring on a film camera. Especially if you’re looking through it at the time.