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What happens when you set your camera to Adobe RGB?
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Apr 27, 2022 14:18:42   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
kenArchi wrote:
Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first sentence regarding raw?
First sentence says only jpeg, second sentence jpeg and raw. ???


Filenames are different than colorspace applied to the data. Check your camera's manual for the exact impact to your specific file names when the Adobe RGB colorspace is selected.

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Apr 27, 2022 14:28:26   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
kenArchi wrote:
Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first sentence regarding raw?
First sentence says only jpeg, second sentence jpeg and raw. ???

I took it as two separate scenarios:
1. The image (JPEG, etc) is physically impacted by the setting.
2. The filename is logically impacted by the setting. (.JPG, CRn, etc.)

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Apr 27, 2022 19:47:53   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
wasnt it invented for CMYK printers to have a better color????

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Apr 27, 2022 21:18:20   #
kenArchi Loc: Seal Beach, CA
 
I apologize, I should not have asked the wrong questions about something I do not know.
There is just too much conflicting info about what settings to use.
RGB is better color. Makes best prints.
Printer prints only sRGB.
Computer monitor is sRGB.
Use No Color Management setting in PSE.

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Apr 27, 2022 21:50:50   #
kenArchi Loc: Seal Beach, CA
 
I found the color settings on my 3 cameras and one only needed to be changed to sRGB.

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Apr 28, 2022 05:34:12   #
RLSprouse Loc: Encinitas CA (near Sandy Eggo)
 
Thank you so much for this, Paul. This it the kind of post I *really* appreciate reading.

~ Russ

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Apr 28, 2022 05:57:27   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
Thank you Paul - for sharing your expertise and for your time.

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Apr 28, 2022 07:00:17   #
tcthome Loc: NJ
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I'm not sure I follow (or agree) with all your comments about the editing colorspace and using PhotoShop. But, I don't use PS, so I can't point to specifically how to best use colorspace in this specific software.

On a more general level for the RAW shooter, if your digital editor supports ProPhotoRGB, that's what you should be using through your entire workflow until you output a digital file for online sharing (and probably too for printing). Those output files should be converted to sRGB, only into the edited output file. This is easily done in LR and similar tools that use the "export" paradigm to convert and save the image-edit instructions into a target output file.
I'm not sure I follow (or agree) with all your com... (show quote)



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Apr 28, 2022 07:50:29   #
AFPhoto Loc: Jamestown, RI, USA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Answer: nothing good

Did I get your attention? Are you ready for another urban myth of photography to be knocked down? Here we go.

If you shoot JPEG, are you editing all your images always? If no, don't set your camera to Adobe RGB as you need to, at the minimum, output the colorspace to the general sRGB colorspace before sharing your images.

The choice of color space is a 50/50 choice, as in: sRGB you win, Adobe RGB you lose.

If you shoot RAW, you're wasting your time completely. Why? Your file names get an underscore in the first position like _MG0001.NEF and RAW files don't have a colorspace anyway. RAW files are the original sensor data. Camera sensors don't have a colorspace. Colorspace is an attribute of your digital editor or how the color data is encoded into a display format when the RAW data is converted to JPEG or TIFF, etc. That's how a tool like Lightroom or Topaz Sharpen can use ProPhotoRGB against your RAW files even though ProPhotoRGB isn't even an option in the camera menu options.

Do you shoot RAW and JPEG so you can share the JPEGs quickly? Now you're wasting your time by a factor of 2x. Your 'quick JPEGs' now require a colorspace conversion before sharing, defeating 'quick'. Your RAW files, as noted above, get a less useful filename while having no technical impact of using the Adobe RGB colorspace camera setting.

Now, let's get to the real urban myths:

Myth1 - Adobe RGB is better for printing

Really? Do you print your images? Does your printer (local or third-party) accept files in Adobe RGB? Have you ever compared two prints, one in sRGB against the same image in Adobe RGB? If you have any NO responses to these probing questions, then Adobe RGB is not really better for printing.

Myth2 - Adobe RGB is the better colorspace

Really? When your RAW sensor data was converted to an 8-bit JPEG, the 12- or 14-bit data from the sensor was 'compressed' into the maximum storage capabilities of the 8-bit JPEG format. To simplify the high-level idea, Adobe RGB emphasizes different colors / tones over sRGB, but it cannot 'store' more data in 8-bit than sRGB can store in the same 8-bit encoding. BTW, RGB is literally Red-Green-Blue and this colorspace data is simply all the color tones and relative brightness of mixing Red with Green with Blue to create the rich colors and tones of the world.

When should I use Adobe RGB?

I'm trying to argue: never.

If I haven't convince you yet, consider these four reasons / input requirements, all that must be met together:

a. You shoot in your camera's highest quality JPEG setting, i.e., the highest pixel resolution and the least JPEG compression.

b. You edit all your JPEGs in a workflow that reliably enforces a conversion to the sRGB colorspace for online sharing of the edited results.

c. Any transitions between software in your workflow maintain the ProPhotoRGB (or Adobe RGB) colorspace when the transition files are created.

d. You have a printer that accepts the Adobe RGB files and prints in the Adobe RGB colorspace (and does not perform a behind the scenes sRGB converion).

e. (Optional) You've paid extra (a whole lot extra) to buy an "Adobe RGB" monitor to see your colorspace during editing

Still not convinced? Here's two UHH links:

The first post shows a problem using the wrong colorspace on page 1 of the original post. Just skip to page 2 to see an example of the image converted and posted to sRGB. This is what you risk by using Adobe RGB:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-362867-1.html

Here's a longer, boring thread about the two colorspaces:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-364870-1.html
b Answer: /b nothing good br br Did I get your ... (show quote)


Thanks Paul. Once again I learn something from UHH thanks to you. Keep it up.

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Apr 28, 2022 08:19:28   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
That's what I've always heard from other experts, despite common recommendations.

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Apr 28, 2022 09:12:29   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Answer: nothing good

Did I get your attention? Are you ready for another urban myth of photography to be knocked down? Here we go.

If you shoot JPEG, are you editing all your images always? If no, don't set your camera to Adobe RGB as you need to, at the minimum, output the colorspace to the general sRGB colorspace before sharing your images.

The choice of color space is a 50/50 choice, as in: sRGB you win, Adobe RGB you lose.

If you shoot RAW, you're wasting your time completely. Why? Your file names get an underscore in the first position like _MG0001.NEF and RAW files don't have a colorspace anyway. RAW files are the original sensor data. Camera sensors don't have a colorspace. Colorspace is an attribute of your digital editor or how the color data is encoded into a display format when the RAW data is converted to JPEG or TIFF, etc. That's how a tool like Lightroom or Topaz Sharpen can use ProPhotoRGB against your RAW files even though ProPhotoRGB isn't even an option in the camera menu options.

Do you shoot RAW and JPEG so you can share the JPEGs quickly? Now you're wasting your time by a factor of 2x. Your 'quick JPEGs' now require a colorspace conversion before sharing, defeating 'quick'. Your RAW files, as noted above, get a less useful filename while having no technical impact of using the Adobe RGB colorspace camera setting.

Now, let's get to the real urban myths:

Myth1 - Adobe RGB is better for printing

Really? Do you print your images? Does your printer (local or third-party) accept files in Adobe RGB? Have you ever compared two prints, one in sRGB against the same image in Adobe RGB? If you have any NO responses to these probing questions, then Adobe RGB is not really better for printing.

Myth2 - Adobe RGB is the better colorspace

Really? When your RAW sensor data was converted to an 8-bit JPEG, the 12- or 14-bit data from the sensor was 'compressed' into the maximum storage capabilities of the 8-bit JPEG format. To simplify the high-level idea, Adobe RGB emphasizes different colors / tones over sRGB, but it cannot 'store' more data in 8-bit than sRGB can store in the same 8-bit encoding. BTW, RGB is literally Red-Green-Blue and this colorspace data is simply all the color tones and relative brightness of mixing Red with Green with Blue to create the rich colors and tones of the world.

When should I use Adobe RGB?

I'm trying to argue: never.

If I haven't convince you yet, consider these four reasons / input requirements, all that must be met together:

a. You shoot in your camera's highest quality JPEG setting, i.e., the highest pixel resolution and the least JPEG compression.

b. You edit all your JPEGs in a workflow that reliably enforces a conversion to the sRGB colorspace for online sharing of the edited results.

c. Any transitions between software in your workflow maintain the ProPhotoRGB (or Adobe RGB) colorspace when the transition files are created.

d. You have a printer that accepts the Adobe RGB files and prints in the Adobe RGB colorspace (and does not perform a behind the scenes sRGB converion).

e. (Optional) You've paid extra (a whole lot extra) to buy an "Adobe RGB" monitor to see your colorspace during editing

Still not convinced? Here's two UHH links:

The first post shows a problem using the wrong colorspace on page 1 of the original post. Just skip to page 2 to see an example of the image converted and posted to sRGB. This is what you risk by using Adobe RGB:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-362867-1.html

Here's a longer, boring thread about the two colorspaces:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-364870-1.html
b Answer: /b nothing good br br Did I get your ... (show quote)


SRGB is always on with my cameras. Good job!!

Reply
 
 
Apr 28, 2022 09:47:22   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Well, that tells. You don't use Photoshop. This fact means you likely cannot fully discuss the variety of color control in this photo editor. So be it. To each his own.

For my part, I started with Photoshop Elements and then gradually moved to the full Photoshop including Adobe Camera Raw. I never looked back.
CHG_CANON wrote:
I'm not sure I follow (or agree) with all your comments about the editing colorspace and using PhotoShop. But, I don't use PS, so I can't point to specifically how to best use colorspace in this specific software.

On a more general level for the RAW shooter, if your digital editor supports ProPhotoRGB, that's what you should be using through your entire workflow until you output a digital file for online sharing (and probably too for printing). Those output files should be converted to sRGB, only into the edited output file. This is easily done in LR and similar tools that use the "export" paradigm to convert and save the image-edit instructions into a target output file.
I'm not sure I follow (or agree) with all your com... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 28, 2022 09:50:47   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
anotherview wrote:
Well, that tells. You don't use Photoshop. This fact means you likely cannot fully discuss the variety of color control in this photo editor. So be it. To each his own.

For my part, I started with Photoshop Elements and then gradually moved to the full Photoshop including Adobe Camera Raw. I never looked back.

Key operator: "To each his own."

We all have our reasons, don't we.

Reply
Apr 28, 2022 10:05:03   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
anotherview wrote:
Well, that tells. You don't use Photoshop. This fact means you likely cannot fully discuss the variety of color control in this photo editor. So be it. To each his own.

For my part, I started with Photoshop Elements and then gradually moved to the full Photoshop including Adobe Camera Raw. I never looked back.


You know who manages colorspace correctly and automatically?

Yep: Lightroom, something any PS user pays for every month ... It is to each their own, but with a somewhat unfair coin flip: LR you win, PS who knows.

Reply
Apr 28, 2022 10:12:47   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
Well done Paul.
That sorts it out for me.
JimmyT Sends
Bravo Zulu

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