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Home Generator Plan
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Sep 15, 2021 12:18:45   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Canisdirus wrote:
...My neighbor can only run his house for 6 days with his natural gas tank. Then he gets a whopping big bill to fill it up again. Let's not even bother to compare what you would be paying per kilowatt hour on a generator...the costs are through the roof. Of course during a natural disaster...supply of gas gets limited...and more expensive.
And the natural gas truck still has to be able to get to your driveway...not always possible...


There's nothing that says you have to run your generator continuously in an emergency. My gas generator will run for 12 hours between fills, but I generally run it for around 4 hours in the morning to get the day started and if necessary, 4 hours in the evening to finish up. It does not run when I'm asleep.

4 hours is sufficient to get my refrigerator and freezers cold enough to last a day (as long as they started cold).

The longest we've been out is 3 days.

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Sep 15, 2021 12:24:15   #
Canisdirus
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
There's nothing that says you have to run your generator continuously in an emergency. My gas generator will run for 12 hours between fills, but I generally run it for around 4 hours in the morning to get the day started and if necessary, 4 hours in the evening to finish up. It does not run when I'm asleep.

4 hours is sufficient to get my refrigerator and freezers cold enough to last a day (as long as they started cold).

The longest we've been out is 3 days.


Oh, he didn't run it 24 hours a day...he couldn't.
The gas guy simply was never able to keep up with the demand.
Even folks with generators had to conserve.

Why solar is the better option. It may take a few extra panels up north...but it is still the better option.
Solar tech is accelerating at a clipped pace...unlike combustion generators.
In a few years...solar will be even better...and it's pretty darn good now...at least for residential homes.

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Sep 15, 2021 12:27:30   #
Bill MN Loc: Western MN
 
I have a small generator bought locally. Its large enough to run the refrigerators, freezer and a few lights. I pay for the gas myself.

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Sep 15, 2021 12:31:12   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
JBRIII wrote:
Huge battery packs powered by solar are the thing of the future for this sort of stuff, even cars can be used. Of course there, you could be left high and dry if peak demand followed by outage.
No way with gasoline type, I have one for emergencies, burn lots of gas and need to use and replace gas periodically to keep gas in good condition, pain in the butt. Doing all summer would be way too much trouble and much too dangerous in my opinion.


Yep. Solar is the future. Battery technology is the key to making it happen. The panels are reasonable now, but the batteries have a way to go before a whole house and two electric vehicles can run on them. I'm confident it CAN happen. Whether it will or not depends on education and political will.

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Sep 15, 2021 12:48:19   #
fuminous Loc: Luling, LA... for now...
 
I read about whole house generators- by flashlight- after hurricane Ida. It's now 21 days and still no power... I bought a generator and extension cords; five gallons of unleaded lasts just over 12 hours and I have 11 five gallon cans. Trouble is, some folks were driving 100 miles to find a working gas station WITH gas to sell. Solar panels have appeal but, given that giant trees fall and tree limbs blow about, solar panels can too- or be smashed in place. I suppose if your battery shed is crushed or solar panels leave for other regions, you may not be staying in your house anyway so... a moot point.

Hurricane Ida did major damage to eight of my twelve neighbor's houses and significant damage to four others... big trees are heavy and very wide. My roof is only four months old and my damage is light. Folk with generators- stand-by or portable- can at least remain on site in relative comfort. Yup, a 22kw, whole house, natural gas fired generator w/t***sfer switch is coming my way... but the wait list is long.

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Sep 15, 2021 12:48:52   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
At first glance, the deal you mentioned seems to be one sided as I would expect fuel cost would well exceed money returned by the electric utility. I installed a 22Kw standby generator with an automatic t***sfer switch for my home about 6 years ago. My TOTAL cost, start to finish, including labor, a real concrete pad and the equipment was around 8k plus. The standby generator installation was well worth it and it can run my whole house, heat, a/c, oven, laundry and hot tub included. Best of luck.

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Sep 15, 2021 13:15:01   #
Canisdirus
 
fuminous wrote:
I read about whole house generators- by flashlight- after hurricane Ida. It's now 21 days and still no power... I bought a generator and extension cords; five gallons of unleaded lasts just over 12 hours and I have 11 five gallon cans. Trouble is, some folks were driving 100 miles to find a working gas station WITH gas to sell. Solar panels have appeal but, given that giant trees fall and tree limbs blow about, solar panels can too- or be smashed in place. I suppose if your battery shed is crushed or solar panels leave for other regions, you may not be staying in your house anyway so... a moot point.

Hurricane Ida did major damage to eight of my twelve neighbor's houses and significant damage to four others... big trees are heavy and very wide. My roof is only four months old and my damage is light. Folk with generators- stand-by or portable- can at least remain on site in relative comfort. Yup, a 22kw, whole house, natural gas fired generator w/t***sfer switch is coming my way... but the wait list is long.
I read about whole house generators- by flashlight... (show quote)


Heh..if your solar panels are on your roof and a tree smashes them...you have a much bigger problem than power.
Pretty much in my neighborhood....70% have built in house gens...and maybe 10% have solar.

You will pay through the nose to keep that gas gen operating.
The thing with solar is...it's the investment that keeps on giving back...all the time.
All of my neighbors gen investments...just sit and wait...a lot of sitting and waiting.
Solar is taking down your power bill...every month.

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Sep 15, 2021 13:43:46   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Heh..if your solar panels are on your roof and a tree smashes them...you have a much bigger problem than power.
Pretty much in my neighborhood....70% have built in house gens...and maybe 10% have solar.

You will pay through the nose to keep that gas gen operating.
The thing with solar is...it's the investment that keeps on giving back...all the time.
All of my neighbors gen investments...just sit and wait...a lot of sitting and waiting.
Solar is taking down your power bill...every month.
Heh..if your solar panels are on your roof and a t... (show quote)


If I had enough sun on my roof for solar (I live in a forest), that would definitely be my choice. Solar efficiency has come a LONG way and is clearly (at least to me) the path to the future (and independence from the grid in an emergency) - wish it was an option for me.

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Sep 15, 2021 13:43:56   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
jerryc41 wrote:
This is interesting. The local electric company will give homeowners $550 the first year and $300 a year after that if they use their whole-house generators during peak demand times. Considering the cost of gasoline or propane, I don't think homeowners would come out a head, especially after paying $3,000 - $5,000 for the generator. This would run from June 1 - September 30 every year.

I run a backup generator when we lose power. It is not the most efficient way to generate electricity!

The power company's 'generous' offer of $550/$300 per year is totally laughable! A negative return on investment and no chance of payout.

Solar panels and batteries would be a better option but probably still a negative return on investment and no payout but more environmentally friendly (maybe).

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Sep 15, 2021 13:52:53   #
Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL
 
boberic wrote:
The decision depends upon how often you lose power and your house and the saesons most likely involved in power failure. Obviously winter poses the most danger. Failure in warm weather may be inconvenient but not dangerous. But in cold weather failure obviously can be a serious problem. Your health situation must also be considered. All that said, for those in cold winter locations, a whole house generator may be a good investment. Maybe even better that a c**pla high end new camera bodies and new mirrorless compatible glass
The decision depends upon how often you lose power... (show quote)


Bite your tongue! What could be more important to have than a couple of new cameras and the glass to go with them?. Then when all the pipes burst, you can make sparkling clear pictures of the damage for the insurance company.

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Sep 15, 2021 14:03:10   #
Canisdirus
 
bwana wrote:
I run a backup generator when we lose power. It is not the most efficient way to generate electricity!

The power company's 'generous' offer of $550/$300 per year is totally laughable! A negative return on investment and no chance of payout.

Solar panels and batteries would be a better option but probably still a negative return on investment and no payout but more environmentally friendly (maybe).


I know in Florida...you can get enough solar to not ever need power from the local electric utility company...and they HAVE to buy any surplus you provide.

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Sep 15, 2021 14:34:16   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Heh..if your solar panels are on your roof and a tree smashes them...you have a much bigger problem than power.
Pretty much in my neighborhood....70% have built in house gens...and maybe 10% have solar.

You will pay through the nose to keep that gas gen operating.
The thing with solar is...it's the investment that keeps on giving back...all the time.
All of my neighbors gen investments...just sit and wait...a lot of sitting and waiting.
Solar is taking down your power bill...every month.
Heh..if your solar panels are on your roof and a t... (show quote)


It’s digital imaging vs. film imaging… one is an addictive drug, the other a long run win.

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Sep 15, 2021 14:43:58   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
burkphoto wrote:
Yep. Solar is the future. Battery technology is the key to making it happen. The panels are reasonable now, but the batteries have a way to go before a whole house and two electric vehicles can run on them. I'm confident it CAN happen. Whether it will or not depends on education and political will.


I believe it depends on technological development and economic feasibility. By political will are you suggesting our government pass legislation that makes carbon based alternatives too expensive because I can tell you that isn’t working in California where we pay a dollar a gallon more for gasoline than the national average and double the costs of some states for electricity and still experience rolling blackouts.

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Sep 15, 2021 15:20:41   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Effate wrote:
I believe it depends on technological development and economic feasibility. By political will are you suggesting our government pass legislation that makes carbon based alternatives too expensive because I can tell you that isn’t working in California where we pay a dollar a gallon more for gasoline than the national average and double the costs of some states for electricity and still experience rolling blackouts.


No punitive economic efforts work. What works are public-private agreements that ease the pain of technology t***sitions. Simultaneously, the new technology has to be proven both better than the old, and more affordable. That’s the incentive to change.

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Sep 15, 2021 16:21:34   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
pendennis wrote:
We live in an area (Metro Detroit), where power outages are a fact of life, especially during the severe weather seasons of summer and winter. The local HVAC contractors have back orders for whole house generators booked for months in advance. Most popular are the Generacs, and they seem to be a good idea. Our close friends had one installed at their new home, and it's been a real asset. They have natural gas, and the Generac cuts in after about a minute, and no need to worry about buying propane. Theirs has kicked in around six times since the house was built in 2019.

The problem is not whether people "need" renewable energy. Windmills and solar are not viable, especially in mass distribution, so the near term solution (15-20) years is to invest money in making the current system more reliable. DTE has a huge problems with above-ground electrical lines with overgrown trees causing downed lines during storms. However, to move those overhead lines underground would cost nearly as much as the original overhead line cost.
We live in an area (Metro Detroit), where power ou... (show quote)


I see things have "improved" themselves in Detroit in another way. My wife and I grew up in Detroit. I do not recall a single power outage between 1950 and 1970 at my father's house.

In Australia many folks have large Diesel generators as power is unreliable because of incompetent government.

The biggest problem with generators is the ability to store enough fuel and having a generator large enough to power the really important stuff. In my house the important stuff includes the well pump, refrigerator/freezer, A/C and furnace. I do have a gas stove. If you have electronics that are sensitive to brief power outages (clocks need to be reset etc.) the you need an UPS for each device so that in the short time between loss of power and generator turn on. For clocks, electrical designs that include a capacitor or battery to keep the clock functioning for at least a few minutes would be great but the manufacturers don't care about you. Natural gas generators may have problems too. In Texas, this past winter, natural gas service was lost in the winter storm. Solar and wind generators that could be used by an individual have too low a capacity to run the big stuff plus you need lots of batteries. Solar doesn't work at night.

The ARRL and an interesting publication on emergency power.

http://www.arrl.org/shop/Emergency-Power-for-Radio-Communications/

I remind folks that keeping a 100W or less radio and computer going under emergency power is a trivial task when compared to keeping your furnace or A/C going.

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