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Photographically Stopping A bullet
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Aug 1, 2021 13:12:36   #
Buckeye73
 
I tried to get a photo of a 9mm bullet after it passed through an apple but my set up is not fast enough. I used a Miops Trigger set to the sound mode which would set off the flash set at 128 power. The camera was on bulb mode programed for 3 seconds. I used a 30 inch cubed box that I lined with black foam board to get a dark environment. I could get decent photos of the muzzle flash and the apple exploding but nothing of the bullet. The speed of the flash is based on the shortest flash duration. The flash I used was a Nikon SB800 which gives a flash duration of 1/41,000
of a second. Further research indicated it would take a flash duration of 1 millionth of a second to totally stop a bullet.
How can this be done economically?


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Aug 1, 2021 13:20:39   #
PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago
 
Buckeye73 wrote:
I tried to get a photo of a 9mm bullet after it passed through an apple but my set up is not fast enough. I used a Miops Trigger set to the sound mode which would set off the flash set at 128 power. The camera was on bulb mode programed for 3 seconds. I used a 30 inch cubed box that I lined with black foam board to get a dark environment. I could get decent photos of the muzzle flash and the apple exploding but nothing of the bullet. The speed of the flash is based on the shortest flash duration. The flash I used was a Nikon SB800 which gives a flash duration of 1/41,000
of a second. Further research indicated it would take a flash duration of 1 millionth of a second to totally stop a bullet.
How can this be done economically?
I tried to get a photo of a 9mm bullet after it pa... (show quote)


Poor apple donated to your science.

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Aug 1, 2021 13:24:59   #
quixdraw Loc: American Free States -- Montana
 
Dr. Harold Edgerton - https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/edgerton-rapatronic/
Lots of info, as to affordable, probably not!

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Aug 1, 2021 13:27:12   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
Buckeye73 wrote:
I tried to get a photo of a 9mm bullet after it passed through an apple but my set up is not fast enough. I used a Miops Trigger set to the sound mode which would set off the flash set at 128 power. The camera was on bulb mode programed for 3 seconds. I used a 30 inch cubed box that I lined with black foam board to get a dark environment. I could get decent photos of the muzzle flash and the apple exploding but nothing of the bullet. The speed of the flash is based on the shortest flash duration. The flash I used was a Nikon SB800 which gives a flash duration of 1/41,000
of a second. Further research indicated it would take a flash duration of 1 millionth of a second to totally stop a bullet.
How can this be done economically?
I tried to get a photo of a 9mm bullet after it pa... (show quote)


Hmmm...just an idea - short of buying equipment which will set you back five figures or more - maybe try slowing down the bullet? Maybe a few sheets of paper or acetate in front of the target will do? Will require some experimentation of course. The frame holding the acetate or paper will have to be sturdy. The taught material will have to be perfectly perpendicular to the path of the bullet to avoid trajectory changes.

Most of the shots I've seen of bullets going thru objects were taking with burst cameras capable of 30,000 fps or more, or super shot burst flash equipment. Yes, expensive $$$ either way.

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Aug 1, 2021 14:06:00   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
... maybe try slowing down the bullet?....


In addition to having the bullet pass through something else first (which might deform it), you also could try:

1. Specially hand loaded bullets loaded less gunpowder.

2. Shooting from farther away.

Both those would reduce the bullet speed. Working from more distance also may allow the shutter release and flash to be better timed.

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Aug 1, 2021 14:12:21   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Buckeye73 wrote:
I tried to get a photo of a 9mm bullet after it passed through an apple but my set up is not fast enough. I used a Miops Trigger set to the sound mode which would set off the flash set at 128 power. The camera was on bulb mode programed for 3 seconds. I used a 30 inch cubed box that I lined with black foam board to get a dark environment. I could get decent photos of the muzzle flash and the apple exploding but nothing of the bullet. The speed of the flash is based on the shortest flash duration. The flash I used was a Nikon SB800 which gives a flash duration of 1/41,000
of a second. Further research indicated it would take a flash duration of 1 millionth of a second to totally stop a bullet.
How can this be done economically?
I tried to get a photo of a 9mm bullet after it pa... (show quote)


That must have been on evil apple to die like that 🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎

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Aug 1, 2021 17:44:02   #
quixdraw Loc: American Free States -- Montana
 
joecichjr wrote:
That must have been on evil apple to die like that 🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎


Rotten to the core! Probably bad seeds as well!

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Aug 1, 2021 17:58:10   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
Hmmm...just an idea - short of buying equipment which will set you back five figures or more - maybe try slowing down the bullet? Maybe a few sheets of paper or acetate in front of the target will do? Will require some experimentation of course. The frame holding the acetate or paper will have to be sturdy. The taught material will have to be perfectly perpendicular to the path of the bullet to avoid trajectory changes.

Most of the shots I've seen of bullets going thru objects were taking with burst cameras capable of 30,000 fps or more, or super shot burst flash equipment. Yes, expensive $$$ either way.
Hmmm...just an idea - short of buying equipment wh... (show quote)


A 9mm bullet travels at around 1200 feet per second. With a flash duration of 1/41,000 second, the bullet will travel about .3 feet, or about 3.6 inches during the flash and will look like a long blur on a photograph. You do need a flash duration of about a millionth of a second to stop a bullet cold in a photograph. This is beyond the capability of any consumer grade flash equipment. As for slowing a bullet down with a few sheets of paper, I doubt if something like that would slow down a fast moving bullet to any significant degree.

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Aug 1, 2021 17:59:12   #
twowindsbear
 
Adjust the distance between the sound trigger and the sound source. This will change the delay from the 'bang' of the fire arm firing to the 'flash' of the flash flashing, thus allowing you to capture the bullet where you want it in the final image. Your stated flash duration, 1/41,000, should be totally adequate for what you have in mind. How are you capturing the expended bullet, after it makes applesauce for you? Good luck!

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Aug 1, 2021 18:35:25   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
amfoto1 wrote:
In addition to having the bullet pass through something else first (which might deform it), you also could try:

1. Specially hand loaded bullets loaded less gunpowder.

2. Shooting from farther away.

Both those would reduce the bullet speed. Working from more distance also may allow the shutter release and flash to be better timed.


If you hand load to a lower velocity and you're using a semi-automatic gun, the mechanism may not actuate and/or the casing may not fully eject and jam the gun. And who is going to do this?

I think that the bullet velocity will still be a problem out to at least a couple of hundred yards, and try to hit something with a handgun at that distance.

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Aug 1, 2021 18:45:58   #
quixdraw Loc: American Free States -- Montana
 
therwol wrote:
If you hand load to a lower velocity and you're using a semi-automatic gun, the mechanism may not actuate and/or the casing may not fully eject and jam the gun. And who is going to do this?

I think that the bullet velocity will still be a problem out to at least a couple of hundred yards, and try to hit something with a handgun at that distance.


Soft loads may not work the action, but as long as the round exits the barrel, no problem. We're talking about one shot at an apple. If you have to work the slide to eject the casing, or even if the case stove pipes, it doesn't matter for a photo. As to speed and distance, a 148 gr target load for a 38 Special target (or any) revolver can be as low as 500 FPS. That approach is probably a path to success.

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Aug 1, 2021 19:05:53   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
quixdraw wrote:
Soft loads may not work the action, but as long as the round exits the barrel, no problem. We're talking about one shot at an apple. If you have to work the slide to eject the casing, or even if the case stove pipes, it doesn't matter for a photo. As to speed and distance, a 148 gr target load for a 38 Special target (or any) revolver can be as low as 500 FPS. That approach is probably a path to success.


I do think that soft loads are a valid suggestion, but can you walk into a store and buy them for a 9mm? I suspect not. Does the OP have the ability to hand load to 500 FPS? I have no idea. Does the OP have other guns that may give better results? I don't know. It's interesting that you mention, "but as long as the round exits the barrel." Many years ago, I shot some BB or CB caps in a 22 rifle. One round did not exit the barrel. The next round caused the barrel to balloon at the point of the obstruction, and I had to send the rifle back to the factory for a new barrel.

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Aug 1, 2021 19:23:20   #
quixdraw Loc: American Free States -- Montana
 
therwol wrote:
I do think that soft loads are a valid suggestion, but can you walk into a store and buy them for a 9mm? I suspect not. Does the OP have the ability to hand load to 500 FPS? I have no idea. Does the OP have other guns that may give better results? I don't know. It's interesting that you mention, "but as long as the round exits the barrel." Many years ago, I shot some BB or CB caps in a 22 rifle. One round did not exit the barrel. The next round caused the barrel to balloon at the point of the obstruction, and I had to send the rifle back to the factory for a new barrel.
I do think that soft loads are a valid suggestion,... (show quote)


The OP could buy a .38, find a local Hand loader and pay for some soft target loads for a few hundred dollars vs. a young fortune for a 1 millionth speed flash even if one could be found. The old rule is that if a shot feels or sounds strange, open the action and check the barrel! Having some experience with CB caps, your incident surprises me. The pressures needed to bulge a barrel shouldn't be there.

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Aug 1, 2021 19:34:42   #
hcmcdole
 
therwol wrote:
A 9mm bullet travels at around 1200 feet per second. With a flash duration of 1/41,000 second, the bullet will travel about .3 feet, or about 3.6 inches during the flash and will look like a long blur on a photograph. You do need a flash duration of about a millionth of a second to stop a bullet cold in a photograph. This is beyond the capability of any consumer grade flash equipment. As for slowing a bullet down with a few sheets of paper, I doubt if something like that would slow down a fast moving bullet to any significant degree.
A 9mm bullet travels at around 1200 feet per secon... (show quote)


I think you may be off by a factor of ten? It should be 0.029 feet or 0.36 inches.

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Aug 1, 2021 19:42:01   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
hcmcdole wrote:
I think you may be off by a factor of ten? It should be 0.029 feet or 0.36 inches.


I stand corrected, but it still isn't good enough for a sharp image.

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