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Jun 11, 2021 14:21:11   #
cwp3420
 
JohnFrim wrote:
The ONLY way that I can rationalize there being a God is that He designed matter and energy, and the fundamental laws by which these behave. I analogize it to making Lego pieces; the pieces can be assembled in almost limitless ways, but the "creator" of Lego has no idea of what the "designers/users" will ultimately create.

IF there is a God of this sort, then He is letting "the universe unfold as it should" according to His laws. But He is NOT watching us (well, maybe He is observing His experimental universe as it expands) and protecting us (there is simply NO justifiable reason for all the senseless violence and human suffering in this world); he is NOT meddling in our affairs (I don't believe in divine intervention); and there is no such thing as a soul or an afterlife (resurrection of a rotted body???).

All of the unexplainable phenomena become more explainable as time goes by and humans gain a better understanding of science. Eventually, as Hawking says, we will not need faith to reconcile inconsistencies that are currently "beyond human understanding and comprehension."

And I cannot rationalize why a being of such great power needs lowly humans to glorify, thank and praise Him; and if you don't you go to hell. If He is that way, then He probably learned it from Trump!
The ONLY way that I can rationalize there being a ... (show quote)


Your TDS is getting the better of you, John. You can’t even discuss something like this post without bringing Trump into it. I do feel sorry for you, though. You let your intense hatred toward Trump color your entire world view, and now you have to, not want to, bring him into every discussion, and you will continue to do so until you die. And, by the way, God was here before you or Trump. I’m surprised that a man of your age doesn’t know that. Perhaps you need to study the science a little more.

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Jun 11, 2021 14:23:17   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
neillaubenthal wrote:
Incorrect logic. If there was ever a time when nothing existed…there would have been no gravity (or anything else)…because nothing would have existed. Therefore…there would be no possibility for anything to ever exist because some ant come from nothing.

So..if things exist now…something has to have always existed. If one believes that it is a supreme spiritual being…you are what is known as a theist…if you believe that the always in existence thing was matter or material…then you are an a-theist…or atheist. Feds people that claim to be atheists have really thought this through…what they actually believe…at least most of the ones I’ve talked to…is agnostic.
Incorrect logic. If there was ever a time when not... (show quote)


I have thought it through. If god is a great mystery it follows that nobody knows anything about god, so they should just shut up.

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Jun 11, 2021 14:26:47   #
cwp3420
 
berchman wrote:
I have thought it through. If god is a great mystery it follows that nobody knows anything about god, so they should just shut up.


So why don’t you just admit that people shouldn’t have free will to worship who they want to then. Tell people that they can only speak freely about anything that Berchman believes, and everything else if forbidden, as it offends Berchman. Heil Berchman, fuhrer to the universe.

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Jun 11, 2021 17:18:07   #
RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida
 
ArtzDarkroom wrote:
For some, the Bible has all the answers. It guides them. It is timeless and unchanging. It provides stability and constancy in their life.

Unfortunately, for some, Science does not provide those assurances because new data may create alternative explanations that more accurately predict phenomena. This inconsistency is intolerable to those wishing to have answers that don't change.

T. Edison paraphrased~ "I found 10,000 ways how to not make a lightbulb."

Patience and Persistence are qualities of Scientists. Change is frequent in Science.

"Keeping the Faith!" is not a scientific strategy.
For some, the Bible has all the answers. It guide... (show quote)


When one considers that the basis for all religions is that of a primitive man seeking answers and explanations for their world, then one must conclude that religions, in general, are based on long-disproved ideas. The systematic subjugations of the female of the species that are present in all Abrahamic religions and those religions views and rules on the subject of reproduction are no longer acceptable to free-thinking people.

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Jun 11, 2021 17:28:22   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
Rose42 wrote:
Don’t bring Trump into it. That’s juvenile.

If one looks at the complexities of life and the interdependencies of different species and plants, it becomes more plain that science has no idea - Hawking sure didn’t.


I like being juvenile... it keeps me young.

As for life and interdependencies, nothing violates the basic laws of physics. Even biology or chemistry follow the laws. There may be a few things that are still a mystery to us, like time, but as we increase our understanding we peel away the layers of the onion that was religion. God was used to explain a lot of stuff that is now accepted and understood without the mystery of “it is beyond human understanding.”

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Jun 11, 2021 17:32:42   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
cwp3420 wrote:
Your TDS is getting the better of you, John. You can’t even discuss something like this post without bringing Trump into it. I do feel sorry for you, though. You let your intense hatred toward Trump color your entire world view, and now you have to, not want to, bring him into every discussion, and you will continue to do so until you die. And, by the way, God was here before you or Trump. I’m surprised that a man of your age doesn’t know that. Perhaps you need to study the science a little more.
Your TDS is getting the better of you, John. You ... (show quote)


Trump will be a topic of discussion forever, and over time it will become seen as a dark topic. And yes, I do like to bring him into conversations because I care about the US and the world as a whole.

God is a figment of one’s imagination, so He could not have existed — for me — before I was born.

And as far as studying science a little more, isn't a PhD in Physics/Biology enough for you?

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Jun 11, 2021 17:35:55   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
neillaubenthal wrote:
Incorrect logic. If there was ever a time when nothing existed…there would have been no gravity (or anything else)…because nothing would have existed. Therefore…there would be no possibility for anything to ever exist because some ant come from nothing.

So..if things exist now…something has to have always existed. If one believes that it is a supreme spiritual being…you are what is known as a theist…if you believe that the always in existence thing was matter or material…then you are an a-theist…or atheist. Feds people that claim to be atheists have really thought this through…what they actually believe…at least most of the ones I’ve talked to…is agnostic.
Incorrect logic. If there was ever a time when not... (show quote)

I actually accept your thinking. So if something always existed, then God didn’t create it, did He? And who/what made Him?

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Jun 11, 2021 18:11:20   #
mwalsh Loc: Houston
 
berchman wrote:
I have thought it through. If god is a great mystery it follows that nobody knows anything about god, so they should just shut up.


Is there an uninvited person in your house trying to tell you about God? In Texas you could likely shoot them just to shut them up. Castle doctrine and all.


Out in public, however, you may be exposed to ideas and beliefs you don't like.

If that is intolerable...don't go out in public!

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Jun 11, 2021 23:02:09   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
ArtzDarkroom wrote:
For some, the Bible has all the answers. It guides them. It is timeless and unchanging. It provides stability and constancy in their life.

Unfortunately, for some, Science does not provide those assurances because new data may create alternative explanations that more accurately predict phenomena. This inconsistency is intolerable to those wishing to have answers that don't change.

T. Edison paraphrased~ "I found 10,000 ways how to not make a lightbulb."

Patience and Persistence are qualities of Scientists. Change is frequent in Science.

"Keeping the Faith!" is not a scientific strategy.
For some, the Bible has all the answers. It guide... (show quote)


So you are saying there are no immutable moral principles for life and actions?

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Jun 11, 2021 23:12:55   #
Rose42
 
JohnFrim wrote:
I like being juvenile... it keeps me young.

As for life and interdependencies, nothing violates the basic laws of physics. Even biology or chemistry follow the laws. There may be a few things that are still a mystery to us, like time, but as we increase our understanding we peel away the layers of the onion that was religion. God was used to explain a lot of stuff that is now accepted and understood without the mystery of “it is beyond human understanding.”


The science behind it is illusory. Science can’t explain how life was created from nothing.

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Jun 11, 2021 23:14:00   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Rose42 wrote:
The science behind it is illusory. Science can’t explain how life was created from nothing.


Was life created from nothing?
Never heard that in any Christian Bible.

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Jun 11, 2021 23:25:15   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
Rose42 wrote:
The law of physics can’t explain it. It takes a much greater leap of faith to think there was spontaneous creation without God.


While we mat be ignorant as to the creation, ignorance does not imply divinity. And The phrase " You can't prove that god does not exist" is referred to as the "Null Hypothesis" you Can't disprove a negative" as in--I can't dis prove you can't fly.

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Jun 11, 2021 23:33:11   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
boberic wrote:
While we mat be ignorant as to the creation, ignorance does not imply divinity. And The phrase " You can't prove that god does not exist" is referred to as the "Null Hypothesis" you Can't disprove a negative" as in--I can't dis prove you can't fly.


What are the odds that this planet, life and all the complexities are pure chance? Then multiply that by the moon being the correct size and orbit the sun the right distance the solar system etc.
All this by chance.
Ever notice what an odd planet earth is compared to all other known planets in the known universe? Surely there should be dozens if it were so simple a chance the earth was formed by accident.

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Jun 11, 2021 23:42:02   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
Architect1776 wrote:
What are the odds that this planet, life and all the complexities are pure chance? Then multiply that by the moon being the correct size and orbit the sun the right distance the solar system etc.
All this by chance.
Ever notice what an odd planet earth is compared to all other known planets in the known universe? Surely there should be dozens if it were so simple a chance the earth was formed by accident.


And given the sheer size of the universe and its calculated -- but perhaps incorrectly determined -- age, there may in fact be other "earths." But again, given the size and limitations on physical travels, maybe there are others and we simply don't know about them.

And getting back to God, why should there be only one?

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Jun 11, 2021 23:45:14   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
JohnFrim wrote:
And given the sheer size of the universe and its calculated -- but perhaps incorrectly determined -- age, there may in fact be other "earths." But again, given the size and limitations on physical travels, maybe there are others and we simply don't know about them.

And getting back to God, why should there be only one?


Who said there is only one.
Humans are commanded to worship one God but that does not mean there are not other Gods. Perhaps our known God has a God over him and on and on.

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