Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Photo Analysis
Why Does the Bird Seed Appear More Clearly Than the Male House Finch in the Attached Image?
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
Apr 19, 2021 08:44:44   #
Juy Loc: Delaware
 
R.G. wrote:
It's easy to make large detail stand out but it's more of a challenge to make small detail stand out. You're already at the limit of how much sharpening you can give it.

You're also right in thinking that lightness and darkness (i.e. contrast) is a factor. An increase in contrast gives an increase in vividness and an increase in vividness gives an impression of increased sharpness. However, you're already at the limit of how much contrast you can give it.

Much of what we do in editing is about increasing vividness. For example we need to add sharpness only up to the point where it gives an increase in vividness. Any more than that is excessive and is likely to produce unwanted effects. And it's not a good idea to depend on any one thing to add vividness. Sharpness, contrast, saturation and relative brightness should all be used together, but never to excess.

OK, your sharpness, contrast and saturation are pretty much at their maximum. So what does that leave? There are three things you can change - your expectations, the vividness of competing elements and their relative brightness. If you try to push contrast, sharpness and saturation any further you'll end up with an overcooked look. What you can do is reduce the vividness of anything that's not the finch - in particular the seeds. My suggestion is to select the seeds and reduce their contrast a little. That allows you to reduce their vividness without reducing the detail or colour. You could also brighten the finch a little and darken the seeds a little, especially the highlights (the eye is drawn to bright objects).

You could also give the finch a WB shift towards yellow and the background a WB shift towards blue (warm colours advance and cool colours retreat). Plus warm colours (red, orange, yellow and yellow-green) are more vivid than the cooler colours (green and blue).
It's easy to make large detail stand out but it's ... (show quote)


👍👍👍

Reply
Apr 19, 2021 09:01:07   #
rmcgarry331
 
Don,
It is hard to tell anything about the sharpness in your posted photo, due to the noise in the image. It looks like both the bird and the feeder were acceptably sharp when you shot the photo. However, your post processing added a bunch of noise that is killing the sharpness on the feather detail on the bird. For whatever reason, the most important element, the eye remains acceptably sharp.

Reply
Apr 19, 2021 13:02:56   #
cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast
 
The simple answer is that: "...it's the nature of the subject". The image is just fine.

Reply
 
 
Apr 19, 2021 13:19:43   #
elee950021 Loc: New York, NY
 
Nice image! The bird and the feeder are in the same plane. The bird's feathers have low contrast color and the seeds which have contrasty contours appear sharper. The seeds are also brighter so the viewer's eyes are attracted there. I would "select" the seed area and try darkening the highlights in your editing program using "shadows and highlights" to add a tone to the seeds.

Be well! Ed

Reply
Apr 19, 2021 13:27:31   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
R.G. wrote:
It's easy to make large detail stand out but it's more of a challenge to make small detail stand out. You're already at the limit of how much sharpening you can give it.

You're also right in thinking that lightness and darkness (i.e. contrast) is a factor. An increase in contrast gives an increase in vividness and an increase in vividness gives an impression of increased sharpness. However, you're already at the limit of how much contrast you can give it.

Much of what we do in editing is about increasing vividness. For example we need to add sharpness only up to the point where it gives an increase in vividness. Any more than that is excessive and is likely to produce unwanted effects. And it's not a good idea to depend on any one thing to add vividness. Sharpness, contrast, saturation and relative brightness should all be used together, but never to excess.

OK, your sharpness, contrast and saturation are pretty much at their maximum. So what does that leave? There are three things you can change - your expectations, the vividness of competing elements and their relative brightness. If you try to push contrast, sharpness and saturation any further you'll end up with an overcooked look. What you can do is reduce the vividness of anything that's not the finch - in particular the seeds. My suggestion is to select the seeds and reduce their contrast a little. That allows you to reduce their vividness without reducing the detail or colour. You could also brighten the finch a little and darken the seeds a little, especially the highlights (the eye is drawn to bright objects).

You could also give the finch a WB shift towards yellow and the background a WB shift towards blue (warm colours advance and cool colours retreat). Plus warm colours (red, orange, yellow and yellow-green) are more vivid than the cooler colours (green and blue).
It's easy to make large detail stand out but it's ... (show quote)


Dear R.G.
You must have a masters degree in sharpening; lightness; darkness; contrast; vividness; saturation; and brightness. I particularly liked your suggestion to reduce the contrast and vividness and darken the seeds and brighten the finch and give him a slight WB shift towards yellow. You are definitely a photographic scholar and gentleman. I hope we can become photographic buddies!

Reply
Apr 19, 2021 13:30:40   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
quote=elee950021]Nice image! The bird and the feeder are in the same plane. The bird's feathers have low contrast color and the seeds which have contrasty contours appear sharper. The seeds are also brighter so the viewer's eyes are attracted there. I would "select" the seed area and try darkening the highlights in your editing program using "shadows and highlights" to add a tone to the seeds.

Be well! Ed[/quote]

Dear elee950021...

Excellent suggestions. Thank you.

Reply
Apr 19, 2021 13:48:00   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Shooter41 wrote:
...I hope we can become photographic buddies!


You know where to find me .

Reply
 
 
Apr 19, 2021 16:14:14   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Shooter41 wrote:
In my attempt to get maximum clarity in the images I create, I am mystified why the bird seed appears to be much sharper than the bird, even though they both are in focus. I can't decide if it has to do with lightness and darkness, or perhaps the sharply defined edges of of bird seed, or yet some other element I'm not smart enough to think of. What say you, master photographers on UHH?


On download, everything is sarp A beautiful shot🌞

Reply
Apr 19, 2021 16:14:35   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
joecichjr wrote:
On download, everything is sharp A beautiful shot🌞

Reply
Apr 19, 2021 16:18:39   #
srg
 
R.G. wrote:
It's easy to make large detail stand out but it's more of a challenge to make small detail stand out. You're already at the limit of how much sharpening you can give it.

You're also right in thinking that lightness and darkness (i.e. contrast) is a factor. An increase in contrast gives an increase in vividness and an increase in vividness gives an impression of increased sharpness. However, you're already at the limit of how much contrast you can give it.

Much of what we do in editing is about increasing vividness. For example we need to add sharpness only up to the point where it gives an increase in vividness. Any more than that is excessive and is likely to produce unwanted effects. And it's not a good idea to depend on any one thing to add vividness. Sharpness, contrast, saturation and relative brightness should all be used together, but never to excess.

OK, your sharpness, contrast and saturation are pretty much at their maximum. So what does that leave? There are three things you can change - your expectations, the vividness of competing elements and their relative brightness. If you try to push contrast, sharpness and saturation any further you'll end up with an overcooked look. What you can do is reduce the vividness of anything that's not the finch - in particular the seeds. My suggestion is to select the seeds and reduce their contrast a little. That allows you to reduce their vividness without reducing the detail or colour. You could also brighten the finch a little and darken the seeds a little, especially the highlights (the eye is drawn to bright objects).

You could also give the finch a WB shift towards yellow and the background a WB shift towards blue (warm colours advance and cool colours retreat). Plus warm colours (red, orange, yellow and yellow-green) are more vivid than the cooler colours (green and blue).
It's easy to make large detail stand out but it's ... (show quote)


That's a great reply. I learned something.

Reply
Apr 20, 2021 12:18:29   #
Orphoto Loc: Oregon
 
The image appears in focus but has some strange artifacts about it. Is this shot through a picture window?

Reply
 
 
Apr 21, 2021 14:48:23   #
guitarpicker1151 Loc: Lower Left Side of OHIO
 
The bird is alive, balancing, chewing, breathing, watching nervously = Moving. Constantly!
Personally, I know of few seeds or beans that move very much, in a short time.
;-)

Reply
Apr 21, 2021 18:39:13   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
Orphoto wrote:
The image appears in focus but has some strange artifacts about it. Is this shot through a picture window?


How did you know?

Reply
Apr 21, 2021 19:22:57   #
Orphoto Loc: Oregon
 
Shooter 41. My wife does the same thing and i've gotten used to telling the difference. Most windows rob an enormous amount of fine clarity, vastly more than the optical glass used in lenses. I suspect that the glass cuts down acuity more with soft contrast objects. Go outside, shoot just the feeder, and compare with the inside one at 100% and the differences will jump out at you. Window screens are even worse.

Reply
Apr 22, 2021 00:42:24   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
Orphoto wrote:
Shooter 41. My wife does the same thing and i've gotten used to telling the difference. Most windows rob an enormous amount of fine clarity, vastly more than the optical glass used in lenses. I suspect that the glass cuts down acuity more with soft contrast objects. Go outside, shoot just the feeder, and compare with the inside one at 100% and the differences will jump out at you. Window screens are even worse.


Dear Orphoto... Fortunately there will be no kitchen window between me and the players at the season opener for the Wings soccer team. (I am amazed that you picked up on the distortions from the glass window from my photo of the Starling.)

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Photo Analysis
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.