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A little help explaining mirrorless
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Apr 13, 2021 09:07:31   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
A camera, by itself, may not give you better pictures.

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Apr 13, 2021 09:23:17   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Capn_Dave wrote:
Unfortunately Nikon is behind in the mirrorless cameras, Sony has some good features, The relativity new Canon R5 and R6 are making Sony sweat right now as the auto focus is probably the best out there, along with the beat selection of lenses. There are other brands also available also. I would suggest trying out different ones before buying or changing brands. If you have Nikon lenses I would suggest staying with Nikon, as lenses are what you are probably vested in.


Another one that read somewhere 3 years ago that Nikon is behind in the mirrorless game and is still sticking with it. Ok, maybe they’re a few months behind on their flagship Z9, which is expected to hit late summer or fall, while Sony’s Alpha 1 and Canon’s R5 are already out, but unless you’re looking to drop over $5k for a body the Nikon mirrorless line has a lot going for it.

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Apr 13, 2021 09:55:34   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
"From what I have read and heard the Nikon mirrorless system is way behind Sony."

It is possible, I do not know for sure. Nikon and Canon are late arrival at the mirrorless scene. They both have done very well adapting technologies used by other manufacturers that have been working with mirrorless cameras and lenses longer and are more experienced. I do not hear about much complaints from those using Nikon and Canon mirrorless. Those photographers seem to be happy like CO and they are making beautiful images.

"Is switching to mirrorless now or later going to give me better pictures?"

Not necessarily. A dSLR camera is very capable and with good optics and good techniques the images it can produce can be spectacular. Lenses in general tend to produce beautiful images when using a mirrorless body because the rear of the lens is pretty close to the sensor, which was the case when we were using rangefinder cameras. Neither Sony not any other camera be it a dSLR or a mirrorless will improve your photography if you do not do your part. Your load when photographing will be more tolerable if using a mirrorless body because the majority of those cameras tend to be smaller and lighter. Lenses also tend to be smaller. If you are into wildlife photography and from the information you have given us on the lenses you are using you seem to be, your present gear should do very well or perhaps better than any mirrorless. I use Olympus mirrorless bodies but I have never attempted wildlife photography where action takes place because only one of my cameras has phase detection AF but its technology is already old. I have no experience using mirrorless for wildlife or action photography.

"What exactly should I expect to see if I change?"

You should expect to loose a lot of money in your trade-ins and see a hole in your bank account. Sony is a very expensive system, not that Nikon is not but you mentioned Sony. Just for shooting wildlife I would not switch to Sony but that is me.
You should expect lighter cameras and lenses and more convenience when out there during shooting because your load will be lighter. Mirrorless are also very convenient when traveling. It is very possible to have a body and a couple of lenses in a small bag that fits anywhere. By the way, your wife seems to be right on in deciding to stay with what she has.

As has been advised to you by other members of this forum renting a mirrorless camera is a good way to experience them.

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Apr 13, 2021 09:58:22   #
User ID
 
Canisdirus wrote:
https://www.adorama.com/dailydeals
Thanks for the heddzupp !

Good for another 2 hours...


Don’t know about the two hour window but I expected that the price is Nikon authorized so I checked B&H and saved an *extra* $100 (Payboo).

Buyers also need to consider that they are not offered an FTZ for $99 with a refurb body. In my case, I’ll look for a used FTZ. Those will become more common as users finish migrating to Z lenses. To me, the only attraction of live view cameras is that they are not SLRs. Lighter faster sharper lenses mean zilch to me. I’m just all done peeping thru SLR finders, simple as that.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:19:34   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
runakid wrote:
I am a Nikon shooter as is my wife. We are both in our 70's. Our gear is D500/D800 [me] D7000 [kept in car camera] and my wife's D7100. All our lenses are Nikon from 50mm, 70-200, 200-500 500 pf and 500 f4.
From what I have read and heard the Nikon mirrorless system is way behind Sony.
Is switching to mirrorless now or later going to give me better pictures? Besides being lighter AND having eye detection, will the Sony improve my photos? What exactly should I expect to see if I change? Not sure if my wife is interested changing but I thought maybe just a Sony body and the 200-600 for a start.
I am a Nikon shooter as is my wife. We are both in... (show quote)


So far you have received some excellent advice from the members here. I recently switched to the Canon mirrorless system and RF lenses. The great leap for the Canon RF systems and mirrorless is IBIS and the ability to focus on the eye and track it. This leap in technology was a game-changer for me. The other improvements in the new mirrorless cameras by Canon while subtle are definitely improvements. I cannot overstate the importance of the eye focus and tracking as far as accuracy goes for my photos. While eye focus was a game-changer for me the rest of the improvements were the usual incremental improvements. But I strongly endorse the new Canon mirrorless cameras. My Canon 5DIV has been stowed in my camera bag as a backup.
Smile,
JimmyT Sends

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Apr 13, 2021 10:22:00   #
User ID
 
camerapapi wrote:
"From what I have read and heard the Nikon mirrorless system is way behind Sony."

It is possible, I do not know for sure. Nikon and Canon are late arrival at the mirrorless scene. They both have done very well adapting technologies used by other manufacturers that have been working with mirrorless cameras and lenses longer and are more experienced. I do not hear about much complaints from those using Nikon and Canon mirrorless. Those photographers seem to be happy like CO and they are making beautiful images.

"Is switching to mirrorless now or later going to give me better pictures?"

Not necessarily. A dSLR camera is very capable and with good optics and good techniques the images it can produce can be spectacular. Lenses in general tend to produce beautiful images when using a mirrorless body because the rear of the lens is pretty close to the sensor, which was the case when we were using rangefinder cameras. Neither Sony not any other camera be it a dSLR or a mirrorless will improve your photography if you do not do your part. Your load when photographing will be more tolerable if using a mirrorless body because the majority of those cameras tend to be smaller and lighter. Lenses also tend to be smaller. If you are into wildlife photography and from the information you have given us on the lenses you are using you seem to be, your present gear should do very well or perhaps better than any mirrorless. I use Olympus mirrorless bodies but I have never attempted wildlife photography where action takes place because only one of my cameras has phase detection AF but its technology is already old. I have no experience using mirrorless for wildlife or action photography.

"What exactly should I expect to see if I change?"

You should expect to loose a lot of money in your trade-ins and see a hole in your bank account. Sony is a very expensive system, not that Nikon is not but you mentioned Sony. Just for shooting wildlife I would not switch to Sony but that is me.
You should expect lighter cameras and lenses and more convenience when out there during shooting because your load will be lighter. Mirrorless are also very convenient when traveling. It is very possible to have a body and a couple of lenses in a small bag that fits anywhere. By the way, your wife seems to be right on in deciding to stay with what she has.

As has been advised to you by other members of this forum renting a mirrorless camera is a good way to experience them.
"From what I have read and heard the Nikon mi... (show quote)

No company is actually way behind. All companies have some very advanced offerings. Some companies are slightly ahead or behind as technology marches forward.

Reading UHH threads it’s clear that “less advanced” offerings are more advanced than their users will ever be.

Differences exist, but they are greatly meaningless except to competitively minded geeks, of which UHH has a vast surplus :-(

There are many very valid parameters involved in choosing a camera. To let “MOST advanced” be the most dominant parameter is foolish when choosing from among a few highly advanced offerings.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:24:31   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
The difference between who you are and the photographer you want to be is really just the mirror.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:25:20   #
photoman43
 
runakid wrote:
I am a Nikon shooter as is my wife. We are both in our 70's. Our gear is D500/D800 [me] D7000 [kept in car camera] and my wife's D7100. All our lenses are Nikon from 50mm, 70-200, 200-500 500 pf and 500 f4.
From what I have read and heard the Nikon mirrorless system is way behind Sony.
Is switching to mirrorless now or later going to give me better pictures? Besides being lighter AND having eye detection, will the Sony improve my photos? What exactly should I expect to see if I change? Not sure if my wife is interested changing but I thought maybe just a Sony body and the 200-600 for a start.
I am a Nikon shooter as is my wife. We are both in... (show quote)


Very likely the answer is No unless you know today that your current equipment lacks a feature you must have for good pictures. I shoot with a d500 and d850 with Nikon lenses from 20mm to 500mm. Nikon Z bodies do not have any feature I need not already found in my two bodies.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:30:08   #
Canisdirus
 
User ID wrote:
Don’t know about the two hour window but I expected that the price is Nikon authorized so I checked B&H and saved an *extra* $100 (Payboo).

Buyers also need to consider that they are not offered an FTZ for $99 with a refurb body. In my case, I’ll look for a used FTZ. Those will become more common as users finish migrating to Z lenses. To me, the only attraction of live view cameras is that they are not SLRs. Lighter faster sharper lenses mean zilch to me. I’m just all done peeping thru SLR finders, simple as that.
Don’t know about the two hour window but I expecte... (show quote)


I only offered it up as an option, certainly not an endorsement.
I cannot endorse buying a Nikon mirrorless at this point in time.

But... I'll always choose a refurb by the manufacturer over a used one...if I purchased that way (I don't)

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Apr 13, 2021 10:32:33   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
I have a DSLR and two mirrorless as well as a pocket carry camera and a smartphone that are mirrorless. I enjoy using them all and each does something that is more fitting at the time than the others. I believe that the mirrorless cameras provide some technical features that the others do not.

I also believe that the best way to improve the perceived quality of one's photography is to stop taking 'snapshots' and to start studying the composition of the setting for the area that draws the eye into it. Save the snapshots for when the spaceship lands or when you come across Bigfoot.

I personally learn by viewing images that I find to be inspiring that hold my attention. I look for the aspects of it to determine how it was taken and what settings were used. I do this by looking at the properties of the image in File Manager of the photos that have it intact. I visit Flickr and other photo posting sites to see how others compose and set their gear for the image.

Lastly I solicit critique from others for continuing to do the same thing over and over produces the same results. I often browse my older images to compare my progress along with the advancement of post processing skills.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:39:12   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
JayRay wrote:
It seems that most DSLR mirror camera versus digital mirrorless camera debates do not address the following:
Mirrorless auto focusing is done on the the sensor which yields more accurate focusing than a DSLR with a mirror whose auto focus usually requires fine tuned focus corrections for each lens (which works for prime lenses, but it does not work (as well) with zoom lenses because the fine tuned focus corrections actually change as your zoomed focal length changes). If you want to save weight, you need to change from a full frame to crop frame camera AND use the crop frame lenses designed for the camera body. With mirrorless you also essentially have "live view" all of the time and you see exactly what your photo will look like before you take the shot, dramatically reducing the number of your throw away images and decreasing the time required to achieve the image that you want. I was a Canon DSLR shooter for years and shifted to the mirrorless Fujifilm X-T2. My Canon equipment is now gathering dust, most of the time! Fujifilm glass is incredibly sharp and with their mirrorless auto focusing system, the image sharpness was greatly increased over what I could achieve with Canon DSLR mirror cameras. The mirrorless Fuji X camera controls are intuitive, user friendly, and mostly done with dials on top of the camera which reduces the time you spend diving into endless menus. Once you have your camera set up, you really do not have to dive into the menus (except to format your memory card). Fuji cameras are fun to shoot because of their ease of use, without having to dive into menus all of the time! Many complain about the learning curve required with Sony mirrorless and the complex Sony mirrorless menus, as they are not that intuitive or user friendly. I highly recommend the mirrorless Fujifilm X cameras, try one out at a camera store, and see what you think!
My two cents!
It seems that most DSLR mirror camera versus digit... (show quote)




The Fuji X mirrorless system cameras do everything you could possibly want, for a lot less cost. Images are incredibly sharp and color rendition is beautiful.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:47:27   #
neillaubenthal
 
runakid wrote:
I am a Nikon shooter as is my wife. We are both in our 70's. Our gear is D500/D800 [me] D7000 [kept in car camera] and my wife's D7100. All our lenses are Nikon from 50mm, 70-200, 200-500 500 pf and 500 f4.
From what I have read and heard the Nikon mirrorless system is way behind Sony.
Is switching to mirrorless now or later going to give me better pictures? Besides being lighter AND having eye detection, will the Sony improve my photos? What exactly should I expect to see if I change? Not sure if my wife is interested changing but I thought maybe just a Sony body and the 200-600 for a start.
I am a Nikon shooter as is my wife. We are both in... (show quote)


Ignore the troll who believes that only those who shoot mirrorless can possibly take a photo worth looking it. Also ignore the "Sony is better" propaganda…well, don't ignore but consider if it's "better" is worth it to you as you'll need new lenses and there are other factors to consider. Nikon's optics are generally better although the latest Sony lenses and Nikon's Z mount (mirrorless) lenses are pretty comparable from what you see on the reviews. Consider that Sony's (and Canon's) menu system is far different from Nikon's that you're used to and see if you might like the ergonomics of one better than the other. Finally…consider what you do with your photos, how much money you want to spend and what you take photos of before making a decision.

Both mirrorless and DSLRs have their advantages and disadvantages…and each excel in certain situations. The gap is narrowing but this is mostly not because of mirrorless but because no new DLSRs are being released…and since tech always advances comparing a 4 or more year old DSLR with a newly released mirrorless is apples and oranges. Better sensors, processors, AF algorithms and the like all make today's cameras 'better'…but only if you're being held back by your current gear…and that includes both what you take photos of and where the images end up.

Mirrorless will own the market in 5 years or less…because that's what vendors are spending R&D on…they're less complicated mechanically and as the gap is continuing to narrow the advantages of the DSLR will disappear in time and then you'll have DSLRS with features A through C and mirrorless with features A through F…so naturally you'll want better technology. That doesn't mean your current gear doesn't meet your needs or will suddenly stop taking decent photos…but a brand new DSLR with all the other features of mirrorless would be 'better' than an old one just like the mirrorless is in the above comparison.

The reality is…for most situations…one can't tell whether a photo was taken with a DSLR or a mirrorless body…and 80% of a good image comes from 4 inches behind the viewfinder and not the equipment used. Ansel Adams got good photos with cameras sorely lacking in features…but just as rangefinders replaced view cameras…and SLRS replaced those…and DSLRs replace those…mirrorless will replace the latter simply because tech marches on.

To be fair…I've a mirrorless Z7II on order…but it was (for me at least) more of a technology refresh than a mirrorless is better thing. I wanted a newer sensor with more MP output for wildlife and landscapes…and there aren't any 'new' DSLRs on the market so I went with today's best available tech. I'm keeping my DSLR as for some situations…particularly BIF although the Sony A1 has made marked improvements in BIF keeper rate but it's not fully clear whether it is as good as the best DSLRs on the market…and it costa $6K+ just for the body and then you need a lens good enough to take advantage of all that expensive body goodness. Nikon's Z9 will. be out soon…but again it's gonna be a high end pro level standard and is both heavier/larger and more expensive than most of us are willing to spend. Hopefully some of the features in those models will trickle down to more affordable prosumer/enthusiast models.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:49:57   #
47greyfox Loc: on the edge of the Colorado front range
 
The only advice I can in good faith give is that you and wife should ask yourselves “why” you’ll personally benefit from a jump to mirrorless, then have a sincere conversation with yourself on how valid and important those reasons are. And keep in mind, when and if you do make the leap, it’s a gift that will continue from your wallets to someone else as the conversion continues.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:50:15   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
I am also a Nikon shooter and a pro sports guy. I purchased a Z6 a year ago as my entry into the mirrorless world. Since I have a large collection of Nikon lenses, I am not interested in Sony. I am, however, interested in what the Z9 will bring to the table, specifically if it will be useful for sports. Mirrorless is the wave of the future, but not there yet IMHO. If you're happy with what you have, stay with it. Time will tell. Best of luck.

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Apr 13, 2021 10:50:37   #
neillaubenthal
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
I bet your wife would love the Z50 to replace the D7000.


Yeah…mine does. She was using a D7100 with a single 18-55 lens as she didn't want any more weight but was always frustrated by lack of reach…I offered to get her a longer lens but she wasn't willing to carry the extra weight. Bought her a Z50 2 lens kit for Xmas last and she loves it…and the improvements in AF algorithms and sensor (mirrorless aside) have gotten her better images…but as I said in my other post a lot of that isn't specifically mirrorless but rather 2021 tech rather than 2015 tech…and to get the former you have to go with a mirrorless body today.

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