Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

It appears that you're talking only about the thumbnails, not the photos posted with a "download" option. If you look at the link Paul provided early on, you will see a major difference between the thumbnail and the downloaded pic. That is what this whole thread is about: photos posted with sRGB look the same in both thumbnail and download view. Photos that have RGB or "uncalibrated" tags (due to conflicts) proved by the exif of the download...those are the ones that don't display correctly in thumbnail view.

My reference to "thousands" was what I see, not what others see.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

If a photo is posted with a download option and you click that download link to view the photo full size then the ICC color space tag will be intact. The photo re-sized and displayed on the page is the one with the ICC profile stripped off and so has no color space. That's the photo I'm talking about. I originally said that UHH strips off EXIF data when it re-sizes photos. By thumbnail I assume you mean the photo that displays on the UHH page? That's what I've always been talking about. UHH re-sizes photos to display them and when it does that it leaves them without a color space tag.

Photos posted with sRGB do not necessarily look the same in both thumbnail and download view. That's going to depend on how they're viewed and on what device.

Joe

User ID

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

They are likely to look similar but also likely to not look exactly the same.

Most people don't see a discrepancy if it's minor. Especially given:
a) They're not comparing the two (thumbnail versus download view) side by side and
b) Human color memory (sucks).

So it takes a difference of some consequence for them to notice.

Here's an example:

I went to a recent photo I had uploaded to UHH. The original was tagged sRGB color space. UHH re-sized the photo and stripped off the ICC profile to generate the page image. I downloaded that image. I also downloaded the original that I had uploaded for the download view.

Then I displayed both photos in two separate Firefox windows and placed them overlapping side by side. The download view version is on your left (below) and the thumbnail version that had the sRGB profile stripped off by UHH is on your right. I had Firefox color management mode set to it's default value. (Most people using Firefox will never get to the point where they realize there are color management configuration settings for Firefox).

Firefox reads the sRGB profile as it displays the photo you see on the left. In the right side photo there is no color space profile at all in which case Firefox defaults to displaying the image straight to the monitor color space. The two photos are different. It's not huge but they're not the same. Switching back and forth between the UHH page view and the download version and no one is likely to notice that difference.

There is no defined not-color-managed normal behavior. This is what Firefox did. Some other app will do something else and another app something else again. Microsoft apps (eg. Edge) I believe will see the missing profile and fill in sRGB but there's no guarantee Safari will do that or Chrome will do that. Correct color management is the only way we have to assure that we're all seeing the same thing. Leaving an RGB image with out a color space tag is incorrect color management.

Why sRGB almost works: Different color spaces are created to accommodate different needs. sRGB was created back in the mid '90s to address a specific need: An industry supported color space that was a good match to our increasing use of electronic displays. Thankfully once sRGB got some traction the hardware manufacturing industry (HP was one of sRGB's creators) got on board and started making a effort to build their hardware (displays, scanners, printers, etc.) to better work hand in hand with sRGB -- a very good thing for the consumer market. But it's not enough to simply assume that XYZ display out of the box is ready to go. Everybody here who knows what they're doing will tell a beginner the same thing about getting and keeping a display calibrated -- first step toward color management. So yes it's correct that sRGB is our best bet when sending an image off into the wilds of the Internet. But an image without a color space profile will not necessarily display just as if it were sRGB.

Joe

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

I'm not disputing this in the weeds observation other than to say: if you (Joe and Jane UHH User) didn't post with sRGB, the discrepancy gets worse, as in your thumbnail looks noticeable worse than your editing efforts intended. Post in colorspace sRGB is simple and easy to remember and to perform.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

I agree and never suggested otherwise.

Joe

camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.

Ken, a majority of the images I see posted here still retain the original color space, usually Adobe RGB. Monitors in general can see sRGB colors better not meaning you cannot see Adobe RGB colors BUT, those Adobe RGB colors do not look as well reproduced as those of the sRGB color space.

Adobe RGB is a wide color space while sRGB is a much narrower one. Nobody can see the millions of colors that are been reproduced although some tonalities are seen better than others. Monitors and printers reproduce sRGB colors and case in point, if you take a file with ProPhoto or Adobe RGB embedded to a printing station they will not accept it for printing simply because the printers only print sRGB. sRGB is the standard, universal color space.

Simple enough?

SpikeW Loc: Butler PA

First let me say this is not a criticism and not intended to upset anyone. This is coming from an eighty ++ man who grew up in an age of telephone party lines. ( wife said that maybe a lot of people don't know what party lines were, add telephone), (never let wife look over your shoulder when writing).Anyway just to put a quote here to show what happens to us oldies.""The issue here at UHH is that the forum software strips the EXIF date including the ICC profile"---There is more but at this point I am already down seven capital letters ( thank God for recognizing UHH). Sometimes I feel out of it but it is nice to know that there are others who understand and I don't have to know everything and I have learned to to accept things quicker now in older age probably going back to when I finally realized that fish don't bite better in the rain. Damn--Wife finished the coffee.

srt101fan

😁

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

A good rule of thumb: Don’t use Adobe RGB unless a news agency, editor, printer, lab, or high end giclee service bureau ASKS FOR IT.

Any images posted on the Internet will look their best in the sRGB color space. If you use Adobe RGB for some reason, CONVERT the image to sRGB and TAG and EMBED the sRGB profile in the JPEG before uploading it.

Use soft proofing in your post-processing application. You can see out-of-gamut colors that way, and adjust hue and saturation to tune and tame them.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Adobe RGB colors do not look as well reproduced as sRGB colors? How so? I re-sized the photo below myself so that UHH wouldn't alter it. Therefore all three copies seen on this page retain their ICC color space profiles. The top one is tagged sRGB and the middle one Adobe RGB. How are the Adobe RGB colors in the middle image not looking as well reproduced? The two photos look the same to me.

To be clear I started with a raw file output to a TIFF in the ProPhoto color space. I used Photoshop to then convert the color space to sRGB for the top image and to Adobe RGB for the middle image. Just for grins I've included the image with it's original ProPhoto tag at the bottom.


Both sRGB and Adobe RGB gamuts are fully contained within the range of colors visible to humans. Except for blind and color blind people everybody can see them.


Printers don't only print sRGB. A printer's color space is device dependent and different for every different printer. Most printers can not print the entire sRGB or Adobe RGB color gamuts and some printers can print colors not contained in sRGB or Adobe RGB. Their color spaces are typically not coincident. It depends on the printer: https://blog.breathingcolor.com/guide-to-digital-printing-part-2/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=DaqK9stJNRw&feature=emb_logo

Joe

tagged sRGB color space


tagged Adobe RGB color space


tagged ProPhoto color space

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Heres' another real-life example: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-629465-1.html

The question is: which is the better crop? My initial mental response was: neither, until you work on the exposure / processing. But, if you launch the image and / or download and look at details, you see an image posted again not using the sRGB colorspace.

(Download)

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Both of those downloads for the owl photos have ICC profiles and are tagged Adobe RGB. That's fine as long as they are viewed using a color managed app. UHH strips off the ICC profile when it re-sizes the images for the page view but the downloads are fine.

Microsoft's refusal to recognize any color space profile other than sRGB in their properties report is very misleading and just an indication that they remain stubbornly out-of-step.

Joe

Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan

Referring to the Ysarex post of the fence. I think you should have used an image with a wider gamut of colors in your examples. They are all mostly grayish colors.