Trouble with snow scene
Jan 3, 2020 12:15:47 #
Is this more what you were trying for? Please forgive my posting to your post. I assume you are shooting digital so you could over expose by a couple of stops and chimp until you get what you want.
Jan 3, 2020 12:23:05 #
I don't think the focus point or the DOF are the problem. The twigs behind your wife seem OK. They're just not quite as vivid as the twigs in front of her - probably due to the distance and the light. F/14 for an m4/3 camera is quite a small aperture and will give heaps of DOF, especially since it's a fairly short focal length and the subject (and presumably the focus point) aren't particularly close. The shutter speed (1/125) also seems fine, especially considering the focal length. I'm assuming that your camera-holding and shutter release skills are fairly well developed.
One of the problems with the small sensors of the m4/3 cameras is the reduced dynamic range. Comments about using EC are correct in general terms, but in this situation I suspect that anything more than about +1 for an EC adjustment would have resulted in a blown sky. Even +1 could have given a partly blown sky. Full frame cameras with the right metering mode can handle large EC adjustments but don't assume that the same applies to you.
Another common problem with snow shots is getting a blue tint that's just a bit too strong. Yours isn't bad at all but I suspect that a small WB shift towards yellow would help to whiten the snow. I also suspect that a slight Tint shift towards green might help. If you're shooting raw, the camera's WB setting will affect just the suggested setting for the raw file in your raw converter, but if you're shooting jpegs, the right WB setting in camera is necessary to get a good SOOC jpeg. I'm not familiar with your camera, but if it doesn't have a Snow setting for WB, something like Cloudy might work, or a manual adjustment towards yellow. My advice would be to shoot raw and if necessary adjust in PP (not difficult with a raw file).
As far as PP adjustments go, using the Shadows slider will brighten the shot (and in particular your wife) without endangering the highlights. Using a selection on your wife (and any other dark areas) would also work. I agree with comments that a touch more contrast would help to keep the snow looking more vivid. And snow usually responds well to sharpening.
These are all fairly easy adjustments to make. If you find PP daunting just now it'll get easier with practice. I suggest that you don't shy away from learning PP.
One of the problems with the small sensors of the m4/3 cameras is the reduced dynamic range. Comments about using EC are correct in general terms, but in this situation I suspect that anything more than about +1 for an EC adjustment would have resulted in a blown sky. Even +1 could have given a partly blown sky. Full frame cameras with the right metering mode can handle large EC adjustments but don't assume that the same applies to you.
Another common problem with snow shots is getting a blue tint that's just a bit too strong. Yours isn't bad at all but I suspect that a small WB shift towards yellow would help to whiten the snow. I also suspect that a slight Tint shift towards green might help. If you're shooting raw, the camera's WB setting will affect just the suggested setting for the raw file in your raw converter, but if you're shooting jpegs, the right WB setting in camera is necessary to get a good SOOC jpeg. I'm not familiar with your camera, but if it doesn't have a Snow setting for WB, something like Cloudy might work, or a manual adjustment towards yellow. My advice would be to shoot raw and if necessary adjust in PP (not difficult with a raw file).
As far as PP adjustments go, using the Shadows slider will brighten the shot (and in particular your wife) without endangering the highlights. Using a selection on your wife (and any other dark areas) would also work. I agree with comments that a touch more contrast would help to keep the snow looking more vivid. And snow usually responds well to sharpening.
These are all fairly easy adjustments to make. If you find PP daunting just now it'll get easier with practice. I suggest that you don't shy away from learning PP.
Jan 3, 2020 12:31:09 #
Xmsmn wrote:
Getting back into using an ICL camera after 2+ dec... (show quote)
I agree with Fotoartist 100%. This #2 image is very easy to correct. This snowy image is about a half stop underexposed with a slight blue cast. Increasing exposure and white balance (+10 on the temp slider) creates a well exposed image. I would then locally increase the exposure of the lovely lady's face by 0.3 stops. If the face is too red (mine turns red in cold weather), then a slight shift in tint (-3) and/or a slight reduction in saturation and you have a very nice well exposed image.
I wouldn't consider a fill-flash with this composition. You would overexpose the snowy branches in front of your subject.
Jan 3, 2020 16:02:07 #
jimvanells wrote:
The sunny 16 rule can be used for snow as well as beach shots. If your camera has "face detect" make sure it is on and it will avoid the other distractions. Some newer cameras also have "eye detect" but that would be for closer shots than this. But, I might rule out the distractions.
Face detect was on but operator error is looming large in its application. Camera does have face&eye priority settings but I don’t think that setting was active. Thanks for the reminder of the sunny 16 rile.
Jan 3, 2020 16:36:05 #
rmalarz wrote:
First off, the processing is part of the photographic process.
If I were taking this photograph, I'd spot meter and place the brighter values in their appropriate Zone and then process for the darker areas of the scene.
--Bob
If I were taking this photograph, I'd spot meter and place the brighter values in their appropriate Zone and then process for the darker areas of the scene.
--Bob
Thanks Bob. After 5+ decades of taking snapshots, trying hard on occasion for a really good shot, and getting lucky once in a while, it still took me over 5 years of retirement to realize I needed to stop the insanity of doing the same thing and expecting different results. So, new equipment, new decade, new attitude and new to post processing. I appreciate your suggestions.
Jan 3, 2020 16:38:04 #
agillot wrote:
since the photo shop does a good job at correcting the lack of exposure , let it be .the other way would be to measure the amount of sun light hitting the scene , and set the camera accordingly .just add abt 2 f stops in exposure compensation and you are almost there .they used to say , overexpose white , and underexpose black .
Thanks. I think I’m hearing a common thread through this. Boots in the snow tomorrow!
Jan 3, 2020 16:39:22 #
Tjohn wrote:
Manual exposure with metering off your hand (or portable gray card).
The white snow causes you to under expose.
The white snow causes you to under expose.
I’d read about those methods, now I just have to remember to apply them! Thanks.
Jan 3, 2020 16:42:45 #
gilpog wrote:
This may offer some consolation. Ansel Adams said that the most difficult subject for him to properly photograph was SNOW.
😁😁😁😂 oh man, I can just about guarantee that this will be the only time in my life where Ansel Adams is mentioned in relation to my photography. Thanks, I enjoyed the consolation.
Jan 3, 2020 16:44:31 #
Fotoartist wrote:
In #2 the overall exposure is not that far off. Maybe it should be a little brighter with a tad more contrast.
The problem is there was not enough light on the face when captured. If you had increased the exposure globally the snow would have been overexposed (not to mention the sky).
The solution is to use fill-in flash when taking the shot or selective brightening in Photoshop on the face later.
The problem is there was not enough light on the face when captured. If you had increased the exposure globally the snow would have been overexposed (not to mention the sky).
The solution is to use fill-in flash when taking the shot or selective brightening in Photoshop on the face later.
Thanks. I’m going to play in PS with face brightening on this same shot.
Jan 3, 2020 16:52:17 #
BobHartung wrote:
I agree. Snow and Fog require at least +1 stop of image compensation. Use the ƒ stop you want to control DOF, shutter speed to control motion/shake, ISO (presumably 100 or lower with bright sun), and then adjust for +1 to + 1 ⅓ stop over exposure unless you are pixel metering off a shaded area of the persons coat.
Oh and shoot in RAW or RAW + JPEG.
Just My $0.02
Oh and shoot in RAW or RAW + JPEG.
Just My $0.02
I appreciate your $0.02. I’ll have try the metering off the coat. Thanks.
Jan 3, 2020 17:33:08 #
Paul J. Svetlik wrote:
1. Generally speaking, 1.5 exposure increase for snow photography might help.
2. Spot exposure is another possibility and focus on her face.
3. In PS - under "adjustment" you have two tools: brightness and contrast and highlights and shadows.
I hope some of these tools may help you, Xmsmn?
Happy shooting, snow is wonderful!
2. Spot exposure is another possibility and focus on her face.
3. In PS - under "adjustment" you have two tools: brightness and contrast and highlights and shadows.
I hope some of these tools may help you, Xmsmn?
Happy shooting, snow is wonderful!
Thank you Paul. I’ll give all of that a try.
Mark
Jan 3, 2020 17:37:43 #
KoniOmegaflex wrote:
Is this more what you were trying for? Please forgive my posting to your post. I assume you are shooting digital so you could over expose by a couple of stops and chimp until you get what you want.
That’s a pretty darn good image, thanks. She might not like her face so red but hey, it was cold and your rendering captures it. I’ll try your suggestions, thanks.
Jan 3, 2020 17:51:06 #
[quote=R.G.]I don't think the focus point or the DOF are the problem. The twigs behind your wife seem OK. They're just not quite as vivid as the twigs in front of her - probably due to the distance and the light. F/14 for an m4/3 camera is quite a small aperture and will give heaps of DOF, especially since it's a fairly short focal length and the subject (and presumably the focus point) aren't particularly close. The shutter speed (1/125) also seems fine, especially considering the focal length. I'm assuming that your camera-holding and shutter release skills are fairly well developed....
Thanks R.G. For the in-depth analysis and suggestions. I’ve got a lot to learn via practice, practice, practice. Btw, the camera has in-body stabilization to help me.
Thanks R.G. For the in-depth analysis and suggestions. I’ve got a lot to learn via practice, practice, practice. Btw, the camera has in-body stabilization to help me.
Jan 3, 2020 19:06:24 #
Quite a bit of blown out areas in this rework.
--Bob
--Bob
KoniOmegaflex wrote:
Is this more what you were trying for? Please forgive my posting to your post. I assume you are shooting digital so you could over expose by a couple of stops and chimp until you get what you want.
Jan 4, 2020 01:03:26 #
Xmsmn wrote:
I had taken a few shots earlier of the woods using the Scene/Snow selection but I am trying to learn via Manual settings, knowing that can go to pre-sets at most times if needed. Hadn’t thought about the fill flash; doesn’t readily come to mind yet during the day, thanks for the suggestion. Btw, the woods shots didn’t need much pp, maybe should have tried that, but my subject has a limited amount of patience.
There is absolutely no shame in using the auto or scene mode settlngs. The manufacturers have spent millions of $$$$ making sure the auto modes work so why not use them. If you wish to go manual. Then first shoot in an auto mode, evaluate the shot and the use the auto settings to start with to alter. You may find using P setting easier to use. P setting let’s you alter all the settings. Unlike Automatic which does not. When in A, S, and P modes you can use the exposure compensation-+ to adjust the lightness and darkness. Use all the tools the camera provides you. As I said, there is no shame in using them. I’ll bet you use auto settings in your car like radio tuning. Or the auto settings on your microwave like potato or popcorn. Why shoot 100 photos in manual only to have 1 turn out when you could shoot 100 in a auto or scene mode and have 99 good photos.
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