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Photo editing software - not subscription based
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Dec 2, 2019 15:17:45   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
BigDaddy wrote:
The costs of delivering and maintaining software has got to be one of the cheapest of any industry.


If you regularly maintain and upgrade your software, you are in effect subscribing or as you refer to it - renting. Check your EULA (end user license agreement) - you own nothing but a license to use the software according to the terms of its publisher. You do not "own" software, you pay for the privilege of using it. Just like renting an apartment - you pay a small fee (compared to building your own) to use the place, and in return you get some basic maintenance and amenities. I suspect you might object to that too.

If you have some figures on the costs of delivering and maintaining software I'd love to see them.

I don't understand your comparison of the number of Adobe users compared to the number of people in the world. That has nothing to do with the conversation.

If you don't like "renting" software then don't. It doesn't work for you but this is not an economic or usability-based judgment. It's just a personal point of view. I get that. Use the other stuff. None of it is knocking on Adobe's door, unless you factor in PSE - which is non-subscription. But there is nothing inherently wrong with the subscription model - it's cheaper for the enduser, easier to develop and support for the company, simply because it doesn't have to support the 50 diehards still using Photoshop CS1 and Lightroom 1.

They must be doing something that people like - their recurring revenue in 2013 when their business was entirely perpetual license - was $200M, and today, they have over $5B in recurring revenue. If the subscription model is so awful and such a negative - enough to avoid the software at any cost - how do you explain Adobe's meteoric expansion, all while reducing the price of the software. I think your aversion is emotional, not rational, and certainly not based in economics.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/15/adobes-path-from-200-million-to-5-billion-in-recurring-revenue/

Don't get me wrong, the day that Adobe ceases to get it done for me, I will be looking elsewhere. But its replacement has to offer more capability/cheaper/just as easy to use/and produce better results in less time. At the moment, only Capture One comes close. I use both, along with On1 and DXO - all of which have their redeeming qualities, but none are a replacement for Lr/Ps.

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Dec 2, 2019 15:35:12   #
FotoHog Loc: Coud 9
 
Gene51 wrote:
. . . . . their recurring revenue in 2013 when their business was entirely perpetual license - was $200M, and today, they have over $5B in recurring revenue. . . . .
https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/15/adobes-path-from-200-million-to-5-billion-in-recurring-revenue/


O yes, their system works fantastically well for them, and they have found a clever way to virtually force their converts to "like it".

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Dec 2, 2019 15:44:08   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
FotoHog wrote:
Agreed. The question is when. Most never do.


For many people an easy to use and basic editing program like Picasa is sufficient to meet their needs, however a lot of us want more. I've learned to use every feature available to me in DXO Photolab and ON1, so I can get the most out of the software I've paid for. I always keep my software current and take advantage of all the latest features. Software upgrades are not just about new "bells and whistles", it's also about performance improvements, and improvements to existing features.

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Dec 2, 2019 16:11:35   #
FotoHog Loc: Coud 9
 
mwsilvers wrote:
For many people an easy to use and basic editing program like Picasa is sufficient to meet their needs, however a lot of us want more. I've learned to use every feature available to me in DXO Photolab and ON1, so I can get the most out of the software I've paid for. I always keep my software current and take advantage of all the latest features. Software upgrades are not just about new "bells and whistles", it's also about performance improvements, and improvements to existing features.
For many people an easy to use and basic editing p... (show quote)


Fair enough, performance improvements are all part of a product upgrade, as it should be. And we expect to pay a fair price for it. But what we are really talking about here is that we have just another example of the all too familiar corporate greed in the universe of business.

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Dec 2, 2019 16:16:30   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
Gene51 wrote:
<snip>
Don't get me wrong, the day that Adobe ceases to get it done for me, I will be looking elsewhere. But its replacement has to offer more capability/cheaper/just as easy to use/and produce better results in less time. At the moment, only Capture One comes close. I use both, along with On1 and DXO - all of which have their redeeming qualities, but none are a replacement for Lr/Ps.


Exactly.

I appreciate your endorsement of some alternatives, but they are currently pricey in comparison to the $10 a month Adobe plan. If Adobe raises its prices significantly, I’d consider Capture One.

But I think they’re doing just fine with the current price structure, and there is lots of room to grow the user base rather than pricing a significant part of it out of the market.

It’s a great model, IMHO, allowing ordinary hobbyists access to professional grade tools (whether or not we really learn to use them) at an affordable price.

It seems to be mostly older folks who have a big problem with the subscription model. Millennials take their subscriptions for granted. It took me a while to adapt, but it makes too much sense going forward.

Andy

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Dec 2, 2019 16:16:31   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
It's so easy to go along, follow the crowd, to subscribe ...

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Dec 2, 2019 16:19:25   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
It's so easy to go along, follow the crowd, to subscribe ...


It’s easier, and cheaper, to complain.

And every dollar you spend on software is a dollar you can’t spend on the latest full-frame gear. And we know that’s the shortest path to great photography.

Andy

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Dec 2, 2019 16:22:27   #
FotoHog Loc: Coud 9
 
AndyH wrote:
It’s easier, and cheaper, to complain.

And every dollar you spend on software is a dollar you can’t spend on the latest full-frame gear. And we know that’s the shortest path to great photography.

Andy


OOOOO . . . . low blow!

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Dec 2, 2019 16:28:50   #
Yeti Bigtoe
 
Affinity makes a great Photoshop replacement and On1 is a worthy Lightroom replacement especially if you desire digital asset management. There’s more than enough Affinity tutorials available as is a 30 day trail. I believe it’s more intuitive than some software so less tutorials are required.

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Dec 2, 2019 16:38:16   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
AndyH wrote:
It’s easier, and cheaper, to complain.

And every dollar you spend on software is a dollar you can’t spend on the latest full-frame gear. And we know that’s the shortest path to great photography.

Andy


There is nothing wrong with people offering an alternative viewpoint to the endless Adobe promotion that goes on everywhere, especially on a thread where the OP specifically asked for alternatives to subscription based models.

As I said earlier, I was around Ann Arbor when Photoshop was written, met the guy who wrote it, and knew its first users. All of us who saw it at that time were amazed. It is a great program. But 2 billion dollars a year, forever, and allowing Adobe to have control over your machine? No matter how great and wonderful the program is, that is just nuts. And it is not as though they are a model of customer service or reliability or security, either.

I think Adobe's marketing plan is a hustle. That is my opinion. That may not matter to some people, or they may think that somehow Adobe is actually "earning" close to $2,000,000,000 a year and "deserves" that.

It is not easy at all to "complain" about Adobe, or about Microsoft, as far as that goes. Both companies have a massive army of unpaid but almost cult-like and fanatical defenders.

Mike

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Dec 2, 2019 16:43:42   #
FotoHog Loc: Coud 9
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
There is nothing wrong with people offering an alternative viewpoint to the endless Adobe promotion that goes on everywhere, especially on a thread where the OP specifically asked for alternatives to subscription based models.

As I said earlier, I was around Ann Arbor when Photoshop was written, met the guy who wrote it, and knew its first users. All of us who saw it at that time were amazed. It is a great program. But 2 billion dollars a year, forever, and allowing Adobe to have control over your machine? No matter how great and wonderful the program is, that is just nuts. And it is not as though they are a model of customer service or reliability or security, either.

I think Adobe's marketing plan is a hustle. That is my opinion. That may not matter to some people, or they may think that somehow Adobe is actually "earning" close to $2,000,000,000 a year and "deserves" that.

It is not easy at all to "complain" about Adobe, or about Microsoft, as far as that goes. Both companies have a massive army of unpaid but almost cult-like and fanatical defenders.

Mike
There is nothing wrong with people offering an alt... (show quote)


Couldn't have said it any better. . . . .

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Dec 2, 2019 16:44:22   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Gene51 wrote:
If you regularly maintain and upgrade your software, you are in effect subscribing or as you refer to it - renting. Check your EULA (end user license agreement) - you own nothing but a license to use the software according to the terms of its publisher. You do not "own" software, you pay for the privilege of using it. Just like renting an apartment - you pay a small fee (compared to building your own) to use the place, and in return you get some basic maintenance and amenities. I suspect you might object to that too.

If you have some figures on the costs of delivering and maintaining software I'd love to see them.

I don't understand your comparison of the number of Adobe users compared to the number of people in the world. That has nothing to do with the conversation.

If you don't like "renting" software then don't. It doesn't work for you but this is not an economic or usability-based judgment. It's just a personal point of view. I get that. Use the other stuff. None of it is knocking on Adobe's door, unless you factor in PSE - which is non-subscription. But there is nothing inherently wrong with the subscription model - it's cheaper for the enduser, easier to develop and support for the company, simply because it doesn't have to support the 50 diehards still using Photoshop CS1 and Lightroom 1.

They must be doing something that people like - their recurring revenue in 2013 when their business was entirely perpetual license - was $200M, and today, they have over $5B in recurring revenue. If the subscription model is so awful and such a negative - enough to avoid the software at any cost - how do you explain Adobe's meteoric expansion, all while reducing the price of the software. I think your aversion is emotional, not rational, and certainly not based in economics.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/15/adobes-path-from-200-million-to-5-billion-in-recurring-revenue/

Don't get me wrong, the day that Adobe ceases to get it done for me, I will be looking elsewhere. But its replacement has to offer more capability/cheaper/just as easy to use/and produce better results in less time. At the moment, only Capture One comes close. I use both, along with On1 and DXO - all of which have their redeeming qualities, but none are a replacement for Lr/Ps.
If you regularly maintain and upgrade your softwar... (show quote)


The most recent software I bought is davinci resolve for $300 it used to cost $1000 it includes fairlight which used to sell for $25-30 thousand. Now each upgrade to davinci resolve has been free. Now they would like for you to buy hardware from them, their editing keyboard is $1000. It is professional software used in movies tv shows and tv stations. Mostly they want more skilled people which helps build their position in the industry. Oh and if you cant afford $300 there is a free version with most of the features of the studio version.

Other software i have bought include affinity photo designer and publisher. Each have been updated regularly for free.

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Dec 2, 2019 16:52:38   #
srt101fan
 
Question: If you buy an LR/PS subscription, and a few years later you decide to quit, can you still use the LR catalogue or is all of that data lost?

PS - I use Affinity Photo for editing and IMatch for cataloguing.

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Dec 2, 2019 17:27:13   #
mffox Loc: Avon, CT
 
Affinity is my recommendation. Inexpensive, no monthly "subscription fee", excellent product, excellent tutorials. I've been a user since it was first offered.

Mark

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Dec 2, 2019 17:39:27   #
Tom DePuy Loc: Waxhaw, NC...Just east of Charlotte
 
buzzyd wrote:
So, let's have it, what would you recommend that is not subscription based - so no LR, PS, CC for example.

Just a bit of detail -- I shoot mostly raw (Nikon DLSR both DX and FX). I also shoot IR, so support for those kinds of editing would be useful as well.

Thanks for the recommendations!


The software that came with your camera.

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