Ugly Hedgehog® - Photography Forum
Photo editing software - not subscription based
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Dec 2, 2019 10:05:25   #
FiddleMaker Loc: Merrimac, MA
 
Gene51 wrote:
Is your subscription aversion really going to influence what software you end up with, even if it isn't as good as LR/PS?

Gene, I have the monthly subscription to Adobe Lr/Ps although it is probably way overkill for me since I am only a casual hobbyist. But no matter what I do, I absolutely cannot edit a raw Nikon image in Ps and have it look exactly like I can if I use Classic Lr. I would be sunk if it wasn't for Lr. I have very good results editing a RAW image with Lr. Not so with Ps. Do they do entirely different things ?? ~FiddleMaker

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Dec 2, 2019 10:22:40   #
Tronjo Loc: Canada, BC
 
Capture One

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Dec 2, 2019 10:23:19   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Gene51 wrote:

I seriously doubt they are going to go back to permanent license just to satisfy the tiny number of Luddites, and risk losing millions of subscribers. BTW, there are close to 10,000,000 subscribers to Adobe software. That would put you clearly in the minority.

10 million subscribers is nothing compared to 8 billion people in the world. It's not even much compared to the number taking pictures that could actually make use of editing software. My problem with PS has always been it's pricing. Even when you could just buy the thing, it was expensive, and aimed squarely at the professional market. Nothing wrong with that, but I didn't like it personally, and thought it was always a weak marketing ploy, but that is their business. This new ploy is more affordable to the non-professional, so I guess that's a good thing. I still don't like it, and it's probably a large reason they only have 10million customers out of a pool of billions.
Gene51 wrote:

Subscriptions for software have proven to be extremely efficient business models that absolutely work for all three stakeholders - the enduser, company and its shareholders. Everyone wins. At the end of the day it's all about principle - and company policies that increase revenue AND benefit the enduser are good business.

Doesn't work for me, and plenty of others (up to 7 billion nine hundred ninety million others) I don't like renting software, period. A few don't mind, and that's ok too. For those that mind, there is always gimp, and Affinity Photo, and a pack of others that are constantly knocking on Adobes back door.
Gene51 wrote:

Now, if you are of the sort that just doesn't recognize the costs involved in delivering and maintaining software, preferring to use "free" software or using software that must be paid for without paying for it - then that is another conversation about principles. After seeing the subscription models for Adobe and MS software, I wish all companies would move to that model.

The costs of delivering and maintaining software has got to be one of the cheapest of any industry.

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Dec 2, 2019 10:35:47   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
The trend toward monopoly is present everywhere today. It takes ever-larger amounts of capital to develop any product, from airplanes to software.

Today’s market depends on a host of smaller competitors to keep the dominant company honest. I’m glad for the existence of the independents, and their small bands of followers for that reason.

But even Microsoft, with almost no unlicensed competitors, has not lagged in keeping their software at the cutting edge. Their predictable revenue stream allows them to.

Firms using the “new release” model often hold back introducing new features until the next version, while subscription based developers release their improvements incrementally.

The software industry is obviously headed in this direction, but companies have to keep their products superior to maintain the position of dominance, because launching competing products is still cheaper than building an aircraft factory.

I spend more each month on Dunkin coffee than I spend on LR and PS. That’s a good value for me.

I’m glad there is competition, to keep Adobe honest. But the cost and capability of the Adobe Suite has earned my patronage.

Andy

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Dec 2, 2019 10:45:27   #
JDG3
 
buzzyd wrote:
So, let's have it, what would you recommend that is not subscription based - so no LR, PS, CC for example.

Just a bit of detail -- I shoot mostly raw (Nikon DLSR both DX and FX). I also shoot IR, so support for those kinds of editing would be useful as well.

Thanks for the recommendations!


Adobe Photoshop Elements 2020 (at less than $100 one time) - basically a Photoshop Lite with a Photos Organizer, but does just about everything a non-pro (and many pros) would ever need. Also includes Adobe Camera Raw for raw files and adjustments. Lots and lots of training books, videos etc for training and if you are already familiar with LR/PS you will have no problems using.

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Dec 2, 2019 11:07:57   #
ClarkG Loc: Southern Indiana USA
 
I have been a professional photographer for 30+ years using Photoshop. I now use AFFINITY PHOTO. It’s latest upgrade makes it surpass a Photoshop. It’s GREAT! You can download free trial to use. Purchase is only $49 (includes free lifetime upgrades) and they often have sales. There are over 100 free video tutorials out there. Try it and you’ll love it!

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Dec 2, 2019 11:23:45   #
srt101fan
 
Many fervent supporters of the Adobe products and subscription model here. I can accept that Lightroom & Photoshop may be the gold standard in photo editing software. I can accept that the subscription model is a good and cost-effective way to go for many photographers.

What I have trouble with is the apparent inability of some on this forum to accept that (1) not everybody needs, wants, or wants to pay for the "best" tool for their photo editing, and (2) that for some people the oft cited advantage of subscriptions giving you a continuing stream of upgrades for the life of the subscription is not all that important.

I recognize that some updates are highly desirable, like bug fixes, enhanced security, compatibility with OS changes. But does everybody need or want changes that add editing capability? I think not. So some people might feel that they are paying for something they don't need/want and that can create antipathy to the subscription models.

Just my two cents' worth.....

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Dec 2, 2019 11:28:14   #
csparbeck Loc: Brunswick Ohio
 
Try Fotosketcher--it's free.You just have to be patient.

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Dec 2, 2019 11:33:32   #
FotoHog Loc: Coud 9
 
Gene51 wrote:
Is your subscription aversion really going to influence what software you end up with, even if it isn't as good as LR/PS?


YES because the extra "bells and whistles" are hardly worth it.

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Dec 2, 2019 11:34:28   #
photoman43
 
All software recommendations have to be qualified for a number of factors:

The capabilities of your laptop or desktop and monitor or monitors if you prefer multiple monitors.
Apple or Windows operating system
How your brain is wired
How much time and effort are you willing to put into learning how to use the software
Availability of books and videos that show you how to use it
What image types do you need as a result of post processing?
How careful are you to "get it right" in the camera

Here are some recommendations:

Free Nikon software: Nikon View NX-i; Nikon Capture NX-D. Not the fastest but both programs work and they work in tandem. And they read the RAW file exactly as taken by the camera.

Third Party software:

DXO Photo Lab 2 or Photo Lab 3 with or without NIK Collection 2 plugins. Free trials. Uses U point technology which I love.

ON1

Capture One Pro

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Dec 2, 2019 11:52:30   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
FotoHog wrote:
YES because the extra "bells and whistles" are hardly worth it.


I think you mean the extra bells and whistles are hardly worth it to you. Depending on what the "bells and whistles" do, and the post processing goals of a potential customer, they may be well worth it.

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Dec 2, 2019 11:58:51   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
photoman43 wrote:
All software recommendations have to be qualified for a number of factors:

The capabilities of your laptop or desktop and monitor or monitors if you prefer multiple monitors.
Apple or Windows operating system
How your brain is wired
How much time and effort are you willing to put into learning how to use the software
Availability of books and videos that show you how to use it
What image types do you need as a result of post processing?
How careful are you to "get it right" in the camera

Here are some recommendations:

Free Nikon software: Nikon View NX-i; Nikon Capture NX-D. Not the fastest but both programs work and they work in tandem. And they read the RAW file exactly as taken by the camera.

Third Party software:

DXO Photo Lab 2 or Photo Lab 3 with or without NIK Collection 2 plugins. Free trials. Uses U point technology which I love.

ON1

Capture One Pro
All software recommendations have to be qualified ... (show quote)


We think alike. I have PhotoLab 3 Elite, the DXO Nik Collection 2, ON1 Photo Raw 2020, as well as access to Capture One Pro 12 on my brother's computer. Nothing wrong with Adobe LR/PS of course, but for a variety of reasons I weaned myself of it a couple of years ago.

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Dec 2, 2019 12:01:08   #
FotoHog Loc: Coud 9
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I think you mean the extra bells and whistles are hardly worth it to you. Depending on what the "bells and whistles" do, and the post processing goals of a potential customer, they may be well worth it.


Of course, everything is relative. But for the vast majority of users I stand firmly behind me . . . . cough cough . . .

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Dec 2, 2019 12:02:17   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
srt101fan wrote:

I recognize that some updates are highly desirable, like bug fixes, enhanced security, compatibility with OS changes. But does everybody need or want changes that add editing capability? I think not. So some people might feel that they are paying for something they don't need/want and that can create antipathy to the subscription models.

Just my two cents' worth.....


This is undoubtedly true. But the security and bug updates, and availability of ongoing tech support seem to be minimized by those who object to the subscription model.

In point of fact, I generally use less than half of LightRoom's features, and a still-smaller percentage of Photoshop's. At the price, it's worth having these extra features for me, even if I seldom, if ever, use them. Less expensive products have less support, fewer features, and may be less intuitive than the Adobe Suite. If I can get the best software for the price of four large coffees, it's a good use of my money, especially as I'm learning on the most used software platform, and most likely to be around for the long haul.

If the subscription price were doubled, would I continue to subscribe?

Well, I'd have to think about it, and whether I could better spend that money on other pursuits. Maybe I'd have to give up two cups of Dunkin' per week, or maybe I'd just backtrack to Elements, Capture One, or some other product.

Andy

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Dec 2, 2019 12:06:42   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
srt101fan wrote:
What I have trouble with is the apparent inability of some on this forum to accept that (1) not everybody needs, wants, or wants to pay for the "best" tool for their photo editing, and (2) that for some people the oft cited advantage of subscriptions giving you a continuing stream of upgrades for the life of the subscription is not all that important.


Every day I still use a 20 year old copy of Jasc Paint Shop Pro for which I paid $35 - once. It was written by a couple of students (who sold it to Corel and made a lot of money). It is a rock solid bitmap editor with layers and vector tools and all of the other basic photo editing tools. It is much faster than PS and much easier to learn and use. It is not without limitations - no parametric editing and no raw file interpretation for exmaple - but for 90%+ of the photo editing that people do here at UHH it would be more than adequate.

Adobe is pulling in at least $150,000,000 per month on this hustle. That is almost 2 billion dollars a year. Are they building skyscrapers? Curing cancer? No, they are tweaking their bloated, clunky software - at best.

Hardly a day goes by here that someone doesn't post here in total confusion - which is exactly the state of mind that the software vendors want their customers to be in - as they try to wade through some bizarre misbehavior by Adobe software. Problems keep arising that should have been solved years ago, often problems that were solved years ago by a couple of students in a dorm room.

Mike

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