Ugly Hedgehog® - Photography Forum
Photo editing software - not subscription based
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Dec 2, 2019 06:38:34   #
Collhar Loc: New York City.
 
bsprague wrote:
It's the "principle" of it, not the cost of it. It's a big, even giant, multinational corporation that invented a way to steal from you monthly. If enough people make it painful on the world wide web, the burglars will go back to the old way.

It's like Amazon. I (should) refuse to buy from them because it is their fault that the local retailer with the high list prices and weak inventory went out of business.


Stealing would be if they used force and took something from you.They have a product. It is still your choice. I am always amazed if you are a success that somehow makes everything you do bad. Why should they have to compensate you?

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Dec 2, 2019 06:48:59   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
My only objection to Adobe's method of charging is that you can't even buy your way out. If you lease a car you have the option of a buy out if you choose to just keep what you have. If you opt out of Adobe CC you must start over with other software.

I still use CS5 for some things because I like the way it works. Just a guess that the majority of folks who rent Photoshop CC do so because of the hype and never use even a small percentage of it's capabilities. For those who will make use of the features it is a good choice. There is nothing nefarious going on.

To each their own.

---

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Dec 2, 2019 07:02:10   #
foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The Devil wouldn't buy our empty soul. He sets up a subscription.


Very good, so Adobe is the devil.

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Dec 2, 2019 08:03:26   #
coolhanduke Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
 
buzzyd wrote:
So, let's have it, what would you recommend that is not subscription based - so no LR, PS, CC for example.

Just a bit of detail -- I shoot mostly raw (Nikon DLSR both DX and FX). I also shoot IR, so support for those kinds of editing would be useful as well.

Thanks for the recommendations!



You can buy PS Elements for like $60. However eventually the software becomes outdated or you have to swich computers and it no longer works so you buy an upgrade or replace.

I too was against the “toll road” approach. The cost is $120/year. However, your software is always up to date and no need for upgrades every several months.

Having said that, if you don't need all of those features of LR & PS, than by all means you should find an alternative. Just check to see any plug-ins you may have work with your selection.

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Dec 2, 2019 08:13:09   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
Questions,
Do you need all the features of Adobe?
Do you need to be totally updated at all times?

If you answer no to either of these Adobe may not be the best for you!
Other post processing programs are less expensive, easier to use and do not force updates , some do not even require that you buy the yearly updates every year, I just got my update for this year, $40, lot less than $120 (aka $10/mth).

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Dec 2, 2019 08:57:00   #
Bison Bud
 
Gene51 wrote:
Is your subscription aversion really going to influence what software you end up with, even if it isn't as good as LR/PS?


For me the answer to that is an absolute YES!

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Dec 2, 2019 09:07:14   #
coolhanduke Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
 
bobmcculloch wrote:
Questions,
Do you need all the features of Adobe?
Do you need to be totally updated at all times?

If you answer no to either of these Adobe may not be the best for you!
Other post processing programs are less expensive, easier to use and do not force updates , some do not even require that you buy the yearly updates every year, I just got my update for this year, $40, lot less than $120 (aka $10/mth).


Guess i should have added that i use the PS tools to edit my photos which i sell so efficiency and features play an integral part in my post processing and I justify the expense. I actually just canceled my subscription with intent to also find a less expensive solution only to find out that not all of my plug-ins will work with lesser solutions.

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Dec 2, 2019 09:10:34   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
coolhanduke wrote:
Guess i should have added that i use the PS tools to edit my photos which i sell so efficiency and features play an integral part in my post processing and I justify the expense. I actually just canceled my subscription with intent to also find a less expensive solution only to find out that not all of my plug-ins will work with lesser solutions.


Many plug ins will work with PSP, on occasion, couple of years ago, I've installed them to try, didn't use often, it is a try and see situation if I remember right, PSP has enough built-ins for me.

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Dec 2, 2019 09:23:40   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
bsprague wrote:
Photoshop Elements..... Some will whine that it won't do 16 bit processing.
.


The whiners are wrong... because Elements does do 16 bit processing.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-elements/where-did-16-bit-go-in-pse-2020/td-p/10669653

There is slightly limited editing that can be done in 16 bit. Global adjustments, no problem and that's where 16 bit is most importance. Some of the fine editing tools require image file to first be switched to 8 bit. I'm not sure which are limited in Elements 2020... you'll have to search for yourself.

But it's a myth to say that Elements won't do 16 bit processing.

The only time Elements "becomes outdated" is when you buy a camera newer than your current version of the software, that's not supported by it. Or, maybe if they add some "gee whiz" feature you just gotta have.

I don't know about you, but I shoot with my digital cameras for about five years between upgrades.... in which case that $60 Elements purchase price works out to about $12 a year... or 1/10 the cost of subscribing to the LR/PS package ($120 a year). Heck, even full priced Elements at $100 is a bargain, in comparison.

Elements is more of a "standalone" s'ware than LR or PS. It's a RAW converter, organizer and editor, all in one. LR is a RAW converter and organizer... with lite editing ability. PS is the Mack Daddy or all image editors, with "lite" RAW conversion and organizing capabilities. They really are designed to complement each other and aren't "complete" without the other. Elements, on the other hand, is designed to handle image workflow in it's entirety.

Like LR and PS, Elements has a large support community including training, plug-ins, etc.

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Dec 2, 2019 09:23:51   #
mflowe
 
buzzyd wrote:
So, let's have it, what would you recommend that is not subscription based - so no LR, PS, CC for example.

Just a bit of detail -- I shoot mostly raw (Nikon DLSR both DX and FX). I also shoot IR, so support for those kinds of editing would be useful as well.

Thanks for the recommendations!



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Dec 2, 2019 09:26:53   #
mflowe
 
AndyH wrote:
I fail to see the analogy. Like any software, you are renting the use (licensing) of a product that has taken thousands of person-hours to develop, and thousands more to keep up to date. It's just like any other service you purchase. If you "buy" a license and expect perpetual support, I think you are the one expecting something for nothing. It's not Amazon's "fault" that local retailers are struggling - it is the nature of the free market and inventiveness. By the same logic, it's Henry Ford's fault that the local buggy whip maker is out of business, and Canikonsonysonic's that you can't buy any current high quality film cameras. I'd rather have a P-51 than an F-35, but I don't expect my country to start purchasing Mustangs for national defense.

If you don't want to rent your software, then use freeware or learn to code and spend a few thousand hours creating your own.

I do understand some people's objecting to this method of selling, but in the long run it is far better for both users and developers, and nets the customer better and more up to date software at a lower price. That's why nearly all software companies are switching to this model. It's the future, no matter whether we like it or not, and companies that don't move to this model will eventually not be able to keep up with those who do. The freeware or shareware developers just can't keep up with the firms that have a regular and predictable income stream, and the price for less capable "perpetual license" software seems to be increasing.

I'd say Capture One or similar are your only current choices, and you should get it now, because the price is sure to rise.

Sorry, but that's the reality of the marketplace these days.

Andy
I fail to see the analogy. Like any software, you ... (show quote)



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Dec 2, 2019 09:34:23   #
CaptainBobBrown
 
I've gotta say that I've been comparing LR which I've used for years (since LR4) but I've switched to ON1's Photo Raw 2020 and am finding my eyes opened to possibilities for getting much more out of my RAW images than I'd thought possible. PR2020 lets one do anything LR does: Cataloguing, non-destructive editing, all the usual slider control plus a lot more control over local adjustments AND it enables layers like Photo Shop. The later feature is something I'm just getting into but all the usual problems of exposure control one encounters in bird/wildlife photography can be dealt with using layers that I just hadn't appreciated as possible.

For example, it's common in bird photography to have back lighting conditions change from instant to instant as a bird moves around. The usual technique in LR is to compromise the image by jacking up exposure so the bird is well exposed but then the sky is overexposed and LR alone doesn't make it easy to get back any interesting detail in the sky so the image looks a bit flat.

With layers one can easily apply a "luminosity mask" to a layer image to preserve the detail revealed by lowering exposure in the sky then use another mask layer to isolate the bird and nearby underexposed foliage to which one then applies specific exposure increase giving good exposure to both subject and sky. The result is much better illumination, depth, and image quality. The image looks like what one experienced when shooting instead of the inherent limitations of a camera's relatively limited dynamic range.

Using layers requires a learning curve just like any complex software but I'm finding it well worth it and it's broadening my horizons.

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Dec 2, 2019 09:35:59   #
Papa Joe Loc: Midwest U.S.
 
Photoshop Elements. No subscription - you buy it and use it forever....Does most of what any serious photographer wants/needs.

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Dec 2, 2019 09:36:01   #
mflowe
 
jbmauser wrote:
Andy, can you consider the fact that the subscription pricing structure that Adobe put in place was implemented because they had achieved a position of market supremacy and all all commercial art and publishing as well as serious and professional photographers had no where else to go to maintain the quality of their work. Do you think they could turn to Gimp? They had the world by the balls so they implemented a parasitic pricing structure. Yes, I said Parasitic as in sucking off the host as long as it lives. This has created a market for completion and innovation for those who do not make their living using PS or LR. If you make your living requiring a late model car you lease it, if not you buy it maintain it and drive it till you need to replace it. If you make your living with CSS then you lease it if not you buy a program and use it till you need something else. One more point. Adobe has no pressure to innovate do they? They have a locked in income stream. They may add features but there is no desperation to roll out new products and features to make their numbers each quarter do they? They do not have to make it each day.
Andy, can you consider the fact that the subscript... (show quote)


If Adobe is the evil incarnate as you suggest, you as an American are completely free to spend your money and resources to develop and market an alternative.

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Dec 2, 2019 09:53:02   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
That is not true with most software. Success in the software business involves developing a monopoly and then using that to establish an ongoing predictable passive revenue stream which can then be leveraged in various ways. That works against innovation. The person-hours are for sales and marketing, for developing cute gimmicks, and for protecting the monopoly through various means.

A graduate student at the University of Michigan wrote Photoshop in his spare time in 1987. I met him at the time and knew some of the first people to use the original versions. I trust that Adobe took good care of him, but nevertheless, as is the case with PDF, Adobe's talent lies in creating monopolies, controlling software that others created, and holding all of us hostage.

The popular "keeping up to date" ruse is part of an ongoing effort on the part of there assorted sharks in the industry to gain more control over the users. It also allows the software vendor to turn us all into involuntary beta testers.

Mike
That is not true with most software. Success in th... (show quote)


Superb summary of the subject, and right on the money.

At least with PS, they do have a top of the line product, unlike some other even better known software companies. PS does have some hefty competition, particularly among non-professionals.

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