billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

I believe Webster might disagree with YOUR definitions.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

srt101fan

And a good morning to you too! 😕

Nikon1201

This will last a few days.

Nikon1201

This will last a few days.

geezer76 Loc: Prineville, Oregon

ELNikkor

CO's photo of the stainless steel digital caliper looks oddly familiar. (Like something our local SWAT team uses, though not for measuring...)

Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA

This is very interesting. Recently I have read some information statistics and creative approaches about photography in the press. I like the Phoblographer on why iPad news link. I follow Art Basel and Saatchi fine art and Photo.com commercial prints framed etc. Instead of semantics and words about how we think how about real
let's talk about the what is happening in Photography.

Most photographers cannot make a living in the US. All 50 states. Only a couple make on average 40K year.
The average in the 50 states is well below this.
My thought being in the creative business and marketing for years is that imagery has never been so much
all around us with sites like this facebook and other photography sites.
I would guess the amount of visuals we see everyday has increased big time.

Some of the members here are very good photographers technically. And some more creative.
Some here art enthusiasts. Some just love photography. Love the art form.

Read the other day that photography is still questionable as an art form to be purchased by collectors.
My cousin and his wife are wealthy and have photos in their collection worth 100s of thousands.
This kind of collecting is loving the art and also like buying stock as an investment as crazy prices.

Most of us I think don't paint creatively. I went to the School of Visual Arts in NY.
But don't paint. But I do photograph. And have become a marketing service and videographer.

One of the things about this site that irks me is the rejection of video as an art form and source
for still pictures. Many here say I don't want video in my camera. It costs more. You would not have
the sensors you have today if video hadn't been added by Canon,Nikon D90 etc and Sony's sensors.

Some my last thought is can you see a photo by a verbal description. "it had a tree that was shimmering'
or "the colors were so vivid". Can you see that? No you need to see the pictures and videos.
That is why nitpicking is an excercise in words. And had no reason accept the need to post.

I tried to write a thoughtful response to "nitpicking" because some of the posts are nasty and mean.
If we keep this up this forum will lose it's people who contribute intelligent discourse.

Bill_de Loc: US

But a talented writer could let you see it in your mind.

BTW - only one c in exercise. You didn't have to draw me a picture to see it.

I enjoyed your post.

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dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

Like in huge major ways.

Many words, like "amateur" have multiple meanings. The OP seems to be driven to make all of the meanings true in all uses. An amateur is driven by a love of ... whatever. In its early use it meant the person cared more for the activity than for remuneration. Many of the greatest scientific breakthroughs were by amateur scientists.

The OP picks and chooses definitions in a less than rigorous or consistent manner. It would appear he constructed his conclusions and then developed indefensible definitions to support them.

The definitions of the three words chosen as well as the cherry picking in the analysis of the parts of the meanings to be given weight make little sense.

Bill_de Loc: US

I mentioned this before, but many don't read the entire thread.

I believe # 12 in the original post explained the posters intent.

12. If you are reading this, perhaps you now understand the absurdity of some of the things being discussed.

So, on page four are we still being absurd



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dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

No they are not. The are paraphrased definitions to suit your argument. You assign the adjective meaning as if it were the noun meaning.

Proffesional: noun: a person engaged or qualified in a profession.

Amateur: noun(1): a person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid rather than a professional basis.
noun(2): a person who is incompetent or inept at a particular activity.

Hobbyist: noun: a person who pursues a hobby
Hobby: noun: an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation: Her hobbies include stamp-collecting and woodcarving.

Professional may or may not indicate qualifications depending on use and context.

Amateur may or may not indicate competence depending on use and context.

You definition of Hobbyist appears to be pulled out of thin air.

jhkfly

Golly, guys... no need to turn this into a war. It's just the man's opinion. I happen to agree with the concept of the definitions which is to ameliorate discussion about photography. I also agree mostly with those definitions.

I have taken tens of thousand of photographs, and developed black and white film, color prints and slides, and more lately taken and processed digital images. I've also received payment for many of them. But I do not identify as a photographer per se... it's just something I do in the course of living. I do identify as a pilot, because aviation is my favorite hobby, but I don't earn a living that way. Nonetheless, I strive to emulate professional pilots when I fly. Similarly I try to learn from those who know more about photography than I do.

Gerald Sr Loc: Idaho

Useless information !

repleo Loc: Boston

I take exception to your basic premise that photography is a profession. It is not a profession - it is a craft. A professional is typically a member of a profession which typically involves subscribing to a basic ethos of responsibility to the client and the public. It requires at least a formal training and certification or licensure by a professional organization or regulatory authority. I am a member of a profession. I had to complete five years of full time college, a further three years of formal internship under a licensed professional, pass a rigorous 3 day examination and apply for a state license before I could call myself a professional and get my stamp. I have to complete a minimum number of approved professional education courses every year to maintain my licensure. Making money or earning a living never enters the equation.

By contrast, anybody can call themselves a 'professional' photographer. Being able to make a living at photography makes it an 'occupation' not a profession. The lady at the RMV makes a living taking driver license pictures, but to call her a professional photographer is a disservice to both 'professionals' and 'photographers'. Most of those who succeed in making a decent living from photography owe at least as much to their marketing and business skills as to their photographic skills. Many of them rely on supplemental income from courses, workshops, tours etc.

Some folks may consider my definition elitist. However, would you go to a Doctor if their only qualification was a stethascope and a white coat. Or a Dentist with nothing but smiling teeth hanging on the waiting room wall.

Nevertheless, all photographers can take a 'professional' approach towards their photography. Dedication and commitment to developing your skills and keeping abreast of developments is not dependent on earning money from your camera and is not necessarily dependent on your gear.

I think we are all agreed that nearly all photo taking devices (including camera phones) are capable of taking excellent photos under normal conditions. Going up the ladder of equipment really only pushes the box of 'normal' conditions (eg low light, high speed, larger prints, durability etc) Certainly, the need of a mom wanting to take pics of her new born are different to the photographer rushing between shoots or covering 'once in a lifetime' weddings, but the notion that a particular camera is more professional than another is misleading.

Somebody here has a by-line that goes something like:
Professional photographers worry about money.
Enthusiast photographers worry about gear.
Master photographers worry about light.