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Nitpicking points to ponder
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Aug 22, 2019 04:15:52   #
Abo
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
This is an excerpt for the OP's post. They seem like dictionary or encyclopedic definitions with some added opinion but there are many inaccuracies and misconceptions that are oftentimes repeated on this forum. So... as a full-time, lifetime career professional in photography, I will offer my OPINION.

Here's the quote:
"A. A professional is someone who earns their living from their activity.
It does not always mean they are experts in their careers, just that they are earning out of it.
An attitude or way that directly improves the activity

B. An amateur does things for the love of doing it. They do not get paid and although it also means incompetent, many amateurs are far better and knowledgeable than some professionals".

Here my gut reaction: NONSENSE!

Here's my more scholarly explanation:

Professionalism should not only be defined by anyone simply receiving money for goods and services regardless of the quality, craftsmanship or artistry. Consumers of photography on retail, commercial, or industrial level are not fools. They are no going to spend their hard-earned personal or closely monitored corporate funds on substandard workmanship or on items that they can produce themselves or with the services of an amateur. Professional photography is a highly competitive business on two fronts. There are many competent professionals vying for work in the same markets and a significant population of amateurs and part-timers that take on various photographic jobs. If the true profession's work is not outstanding and a significant cut above the rest, he or she will not remain in business for any length of time. Any potential buyer with a modicum of common sense and a good set of eyes in there head are goi to expect, at least, competent technically excellent work for a professional and hopefully work of artistic merit.

Professional photograph, in most jurisdictions in North America and many other countries, is an unlicensed and unregulated profession. Anyone can startup a photographic business with routine business permit registration, a taxation license and a business card. There are no legal standards, mandatory affiliation with a guild, regulatory, college or body or association. There, are, however, well know and time-honored association that professional photographer can join on an invitational or voluntary basis. These may offer many educational opportunities and have programs where masterships, craftsmanships, certificates of professional status and other credentials can be earned and awarded. Again, their memberships are strictly on a voluntary basis. There are codes of ethics, standards and the credentials are no given away easily- there is a lengthy process of competitive performance and service. There is no real censure or disciplinary enforcement powers.

Of course, all businesses are subject to consumer protection laws and regulations but the governments do bother regulating a business that is not involved or safety or legal status of the public. Than goodness pro photographers are not doctors, lawyers, accountants, and engineers. If they disservice their clients nobody dies, get sicker, goes bankrupt, lands in jail or has the house cave in or have airplanes fall out of the sky. Incompetent professional photographers can be held legally responsible for no-performance, and there have been some nasty lawsuits that found wedding shooters and commercial photographers disrespecting deadlines and those operating without proper releases, on the receiving end of a very large and nasty judgment against them that drove them right int bankruptcy. Wehn so-called professional photographer does not perform in an ethical and competent manner the only thing they kill is their own business.

Successful professional photographers have to be incredibly good multitaskers. Besides being good technicians and hopefully artists, the have to look after their businesses- accounting, taxation, staff (HR) issues, salaries, overhead expenses, marketing, advertising, public relations and much more. It's not a job for the lazy, complacent, sloppy operator or faint of heart shooter!

Artistry? Some photographers of every ilk can be artists with all the necessary attributes, talents and sensitivities. There are some pre- photographers, who maintain a successful business, who t are not intrinsically artistic but can produce technically competent and very acceptable work. The choices are then up to the consumer.

Amateurs? It's too bad that the word "amateur" has a secondary definition that has become the primary one, "INEPT OR INCOMPETENT"! That ain't necessarily so- there are no doubt talented and extremely artistic amateur photographers. And yes there are "hacks" in the business. The amateurs are not working under the same pressure as pros and in many cases may produce images that surpass that of professionals but it is not a general rule in my experience. I do recall the true and kinder definition of amateurism as doing things for the love of the craft or sport. In all my 56 years in the profession and an amateur on my days off, I have NEVER encountered a successful amateur or professional photographer who was not in LOVE with the hobby, art or profession. I only met a few that were in it strictly for the money and their businesses was extremely short-lived for two major reasons. The first one is the old adage about "not fooling ALL the people ALL of the timed...etc, and the other reason it just too hard a job for the unenthusiastic and they just fizzle out.

There are too many folks who have no idea of what goes on in the photographic profession and choose to pontificate on the state of a industry that the knowe little or nothing about. I would just like to leave some of this insight behind for the few folks around this site who may be interested in pursuing a career in photography. If you have the know-how, talent, and the moxie- you can do it!

PS- For those who are interested in finding out more about professional photography look into theses organizations; The Professional Photographers of America, The Professional Photographer of Canada, The American Society of Media Photographers (ASMP), The New York Press Photographers Association, The Royal Photographic Society of Great Britain- just to name a few of the majors.
This is an excerpt for the OP's post. They seem li... (show quote)


Hello El Shapiro,

I stopped reading your post the instant I read "lifetime career professional in photography".
I then went and had a look at your topics... the images you created.

At first I felt, this bloke needs to stop with the bulk "processing".

When I got to the picture
of the church, I thought, "That's a pleasing image... nice work".

Anyway Sir, I read another paragraph or so of your lengthy post and its obvious you're no slouch.

I'm going back to finish your missive.

Reply
Aug 22, 2019 04:28:00   #
Abo
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
This is an excerpt for the OP's post. They seem like dictionary or encyclopedic definitions with some added opinion but there are many inaccuracies and misconceptions that are oftentimes repeated on this forum. So... as a full-time, lifetime career professional in photography, I will offer my OPINION.

Here's the quote:
"A. A professional is someone who earns their living from their activity.
It does not always mean they are experts in their careers, just that they are earning out of it.
An attitude or way that directly improves the activity

B. An amateur does things for the love of doing it. They do not get paid and although it also means incompetent, many amateurs are far better and knowledgeable than some professionals".

Here my gut reaction: NONSENSE!

Here's my more scholarly explanation:

Professionalism should not only be defined by anyone simply receiving money for goods and services regardless of the quality, craftsmanship or artistry. Consumers of photography on retail, commercial, or industrial level are not fools. They are no going to spend their hard-earned personal or closely monitored corporate funds on substandard workmanship or on items that they can produce themselves or with the services of an amateur. Professional photography is a highly competitive business on two fronts. There are many competent professionals vying for work in the same markets and a significant population of amateurs and part-timers that take on various photographic jobs. If the true profession's work is not outstanding and a significant cut above the rest, he or she will not remain in business for any length of time. Any potential buyer with a modicum of common sense and a good set of eyes in there head are goi to expect, at least, competent technically excellent work for a professional and hopefully work of artistic merit.

Professional photograph, in most jurisdictions in North America and many other countries, is an unlicensed and unregulated profession. Anyone can startup a photographic business with routine business permit registration, a taxation license and a business card. There are no legal standards, mandatory affiliation with a guild, regulatory, college or body or association. There, are, however, well know and time-honored association that professional photographer can join on an invitational or voluntary basis. These may offer many educational opportunities and have programs where masterships, craftsmanships, certificates of professional status and other credentials can be earned and awarded. Again, their memberships are strictly on a voluntary basis. There are codes of ethics, standards and the credentials are no given away easily- there is a lengthy process of competitive performance and service. There is no real censure or disciplinary enforcement powers.

Of course, all businesses are subject to consumer protection laws and regulations but the governments do bother regulating a business that is not involved or safety or legal status of the public. Than goodness pro photographers are not doctors, lawyers, accountants, and engineers. If they disservice their clients nobody dies, get sicker, goes bankrupt, lands in jail or has the house cave in or have airplanes fall out of the sky. Incompetent professional photographers can be held legally responsible for no-performance, and there have been some nasty lawsuits that found wedding shooters and commercial photographers disrespecting deadlines and those operating without proper releases, on the receiving end of a very large and nasty judgment against them that drove them right int bankruptcy. Wehn so-called professional photographer does not perform in an ethical and competent manner the only thing they kill is their own business.

Successful professional photographers have to be incredibly good multitaskers. Besides being good technicians and hopefully artists, the have to look after their businesses- accounting, taxation, staff (HR) issues, salaries, overhead expenses, marketing, advertising, public relations and much more. It's not a job for the lazy, complacent, sloppy operator or faint of heart shooter!

Artistry? Some photographers of every ilk can be artists with all the necessary attributes, talents and sensitivities. There are some pre- photographers, who maintain a successful business, who t are not intrinsically artistic but can produce technically competent and very acceptable work. The choices are then up to the consumer.

Amateurs? It's too bad that the word "amateur" has a secondary definition that has become the primary one, "INEPT OR INCOMPETENT"! That ain't necessarily so- there are no doubt talented and extremely artistic amateur photographers. And yes there are "hacks" in the business. The amateurs are not working under the same pressure as pros and in many cases may produce images that surpass that of professionals but it is not a general rule in my experience. I do recall the true and kinder definition of amateurism as doing things for the love of the craft or sport. In all my 56 years in the profession and an amateur on my days off, I have NEVER encountered a successful amateur or professional photographer who was not in LOVE with the hobby, art or profession. I only met a few that were in it strictly for the money and their businesses was extremely short-lived for two major reasons. The first one is the old adage about "not fooling ALL the people ALL of the timed...etc, and the other reason it just too hard a job for the unenthusiastic and they just fizzle out.

There are too many folks who have no idea of what goes on in the photographic profession and choose to pontificate on the state of a industry that the knowe little or nothing about. I would just like to leave some of this insight behind for the few folks around this site who may be interested in pursuing a career in photography. If you have the know-how, talent, and the moxie- you can do it!

PS- For those who are interested in finding out more about professional photography look into theses organizations; The Professional Photographers of America, The Professional Photographer of Canada, The American Society of Media Photographers (ASMP), The New York Press Photographers Association, The Royal Photographic Society of Great Britain- just to name a few of the majors.
This is an excerpt for the OP's post. They seem li... (show quote)


Hallelujah brother! :-)

But if anyone needs to go back to film, I reckon it would do you good.

I could be wrong but I think you have lost sight of the forest because of the trees...
or perhaps lost sight of the trees because of the forest... whatever, I'm with you!

Reply
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