lamiaceae wrote:
Not sure what you are even trying to say. As stated I OPENED the OP posted RAW file and processed it through my ACR 9.1.1 and Ps CS6 and came up with an OK image, different I think that what I would have shot. Not that I even would have been done with it at that point but I did my normal work flow on it and since he has is own camera and exposure it is to me a bit over exposed. I then SAVED it via Ps as a JPG as that is what we are supposed to be posting on UHH. I posted my version of the OP's image. Not totally to my liking but that might be my point of exit as I did not want to fuss with his image beyond what I normally do with my own images. Yes, I like Bob's version better.
Normally I always shoot RAW myself but I am capable of processing pretty well JPGs too I my get from my CellPhone or just JPEGs I find on the WEB. So I am not sure why you are ragging on me when I essentially said and did the same as everyone else. You that bored?
Not sure what you are even trying to say. As stat... (
show quote)
Everyone shoots RAW... No one shoots Jpeg, or produces anything out of camera.
Your camera converts the image with presets after the shot, into an edited Jpeg with your menu setup.
If you save the RAW files, then you have the option to edit the full- uncompressed data with editing software.
Rich1939 wrote:
Common parlance??
We are trying to help new users understand their cameras not make debating points
You are making debating points by not accepting that Canon and everyone else calls it an image.
catchlight.. wrote:
Everyone shoots RAW... No one shoots Jpeg, or produces anything out of camera.
Your camera converts the image with presets after the shot, into an edited Jpeg with your menu setup.
If you save the RAW files, then you have the option to edit the full- uncompressed data with editing software.
Yes, the camera typically captures or records 14-bit RGB data. You are telling all stuff I already know. How did I get to receive all your info? I am not the OP of this blog thread,
johneccles is.
Technically, there are no RAW images. There are RAW image files. Which need some software to enable a person to see the data translated into some image format. You are correct that a jpg image file can be viewed using some software, whether embedded in an application, such as a web browser, a viewer, or a processor (photoshop). Regardless of what Canon, Nikon, Hasselblad, etc. write in a manual for users, the files are technically image files. Apparently, the attempt to keep things simple is a benefit for some people. Thus, the less technical reference to a RAW image.
--Bob
bleirer wrote:
While I get your meaning, and it is an important distinction, common parlance calls it an image. I searched my Canon RP users guide for the term 'raw image' and got 67 references. Here is one direct paste:
A RAW image is raw data output by the image sensor converted to digital
data. It is recorded to the card as is, and you can select the quality as
follows: 1 or F. F produces RAW images with smaller file sizes
than 1.
RAW images can be processed using [3: RAW image processing]
(=325) and saved as JPEG images. (Just as for 1, all JPEG size
options are available for F.) As the RAW image itself does not change,
you can process the RAW image to create any number of JPEG images
with various processing conditions.
So depending on ones point of view a JPEG also cannot be viewed without software that can read the data and use its instructions to create an image on a monitor screen.
While I get your meaning, and it is an important d... (
show quote)
My view is RAW is the beginning & Jpeg is the finish --
In my case I always save the RAW since the Jpeg is generally a work in progress while I slowly improve in post-processing
Think of them as all Images until you make them a print
All just a play on words
rmalarz wrote:
Technically, there are no RAW images. There are RAW image files. Which need some software to enable a person to see the data translated into some image format. You are correct that a jpg image file can be viewed using some software, whether embedded in an application, such as a web browser, a viewer, or a processor (photoshop). Regardless of what Canon, Nikon, Hasselblad, etc. write in a manual for users, the files are technically image files. Apparently, the attempt to keep things simple is a benefit for some people. Thus, the less technical reference to a RAW image.
--Bob
Technically, there are no RAW images. There are RA... (
show quote)
I do see and agree the main distinction as has been reiterated by many here, that the other image types are types of bitmaps with pixel by pixel correspondence to the viewed image, while raw files are not. So in that sense they are not images,
I shoot in Raw and JPEG so I can instantly see what I have taken as soon as I pull it up in the computer. For many years I deleted the raw files to save space on my hard drives for non-important photos. I could just shoot myself for doing so as I now exhibit my personal work in galleries. The problem is similar between looking at artwork that is a vector vs. raster image. Vector is similar to a raw photo. It is crisp, holds its image even when enlarged, and is easily able to be manipulated. A raster image is similar to a jpeg file, in that it loses its quality when enlarged, doesn’t have the details within the file allowing it to be manipulated. Another thing about jpeg files, each time you adjust them, you eat away a bit at the file. With a raw file, it stays alone, until you save it as a jpeg.
CherylRosen wrote:
I shoot in Raw and JPEG so I can instantly see what I have taken as soon as I pull it up in the computer. For many years I deleted the raw files to save space on my hard drives for non-important photos. I could just shoot myself for doing so as I now exhibit my personal work in galleries. The problem is similar between looking at artwork that is a vector vs. raster image. Vector is similar to a raw photo. It is crisp, holds its image even when enlarged, and is easily able to be manipulated. A raster image is similar to a jpeg file, in that it loses its quality when enlarged, doesn’t have the details within the file allowing it to be manipulated. Another thing about jpeg files, each time you adjust them, you eat away a bit at the file. With a raw file, it stays alone, until you save it as a jpeg.
I shoot in Raw and JPEG so I can instantly see wha... (
show quote)
Your Camera shoots RAW and processes Jpeg.
You can save combinations of information with the options in your menu... your camera can convert the data into a finished Jpeg image after each shot.
You can opt not to have the camera process a Jpeg, and there are also combinations of Jpeg size, values ect. that affect the outcome.
The RAW file contains all of the ingredients to create a Jpeg image at any time with software. You have to choose that option in the camera menu.
A Jpeg is a processed and finished image that is still editable. It must be produced as an end product by the camera, or by you later with an editing program.
... the horse has been beaten severely...
rmalarz wrote:
... To illustrate that even further, I expose to the right. .... The RAW file when processed renders the scene as I intended it to look.
--Bob
While you have accomplished your dramatic intent, the result had nothing to do with exposing to the right, the scene's dynamic range, developing from raw or the peculiar color balance you have set in your camera. It's all in the settings you used during the color conversion to B&W.
I demonstrated this in
Creating a Dramatic B&W Cloud Image using a JPEG snapshot from an iPhone:
That took about two minutes in Capture One Pro. Of course, I could have taken another few seconds to level it.
catchlight.. wrote:
... the horse has been beaten severely...
That's for sure! All of these points have been covered repeatedly every few months and nothing new is ever offered.
But what seems to have gone unnoticed is that johneccles is using a camera that creates a 12-bit raw file. This bit depth is part of the reason that ETTR was invented.
Simply by moving to a camera capable of producing a 14-bit raw file we can get two more stops of dynamic range, the ability to recover more shadow information and less need for ETTR. Of course, you may end up with a bigger, heavier and more expensive camera.
So if you can live with a 28mm field of view, you don't need a camera at all - just a smartphone that produces a decent JPEG. You pay your money and you take your choice.
selmslie wrote:
That's for sure! All of these points have been covered repeatedly every few months and nothing new is ever offered.
But what seems to have gone unnoticed is that johneccles is using a camera that creates a 12-bit raw file. This bit depth is part of the reason that ETTR was invented.
Simply by moving to a camera capable of producing a 14-bit raw file we can get two more stops of dynamic range, the ability to recover more shadow information and less need for ETTR. Of course, you may end up with a bigger, heavier and more expensive camera.
So if you can live with a 28mm field of view, you don't need a camera at all - just a smartphone that produces a decent JPEG. You pay your money and you take your choice.
That's for sure! All of these points have been co... (
show quote)
"But what seems to have gone unnoticed is that johneccles is using a camera that creates a 12-bit raw file. This bit depth is part of the reason that ETTR was invented."
How did you exactly determine that <johneccles> is using a camera that produces a 12-bit file and not 14-bit? Did you look up the specs. or have some special app. for viewing the EXIF data? The Windows 10 Raw File Codec I have does not work with his Raw files (they must be too new or old, as it works fine with my Pentax and Fuji Raw, and friends Canon and Nikon Raw files). When I look at his file with Bridge in Ps on my PC is appears as a 16-bit file. That is probably because just like my own 14-bit files I am opening them with ACR and I have it set to create a 16-bit 300ppi file in Ps. So how do you know the OP has a 12-bit and not 14-bit camera? That certainly would explain things slightly.
lamiaceae wrote:
"But what seems to have gone unnoticed is that johneccles is using a camera that creates a 12-bit raw file. This bit depth is part of the reason that ETTR was invented."
How did you exactly determine that <johneccles> is using a camera that produces a 12-bit file and not 14-bit? Did you look up the specs. or have some special app. for viewing the EXIF data? The Windows 10 Raw File Codec I have to not work with his Raw files (they must be too new or old, as it works fine with my Pentax and Fuji Raw, and friends Canon and Nikon Raw files). When I look at his file with Bridge in Ps on my PC is appears as a 16-bit file. That is probably because just like my own 14-bit files I am opening them with ACR and I have it set to create a 16-bit 300ppi file in Ps. So how do you know the OP has a 12-bit and not 14-bit camera? That certainly would explain things slightly.
"But what seems to have gone unnoticed is tha... (
show quote)
Im not him, but the OP did have M43 in his signature line. I didn't look at the image, but a program like rawdigger also would have shown the bit depth even if not listed in the exif/metadata.
I've watched this argument for 7 or 8 years. About 5-6 on UHH. It's a stupid non-productive argument. I only care about how I shoot and process images that works for me. I don't care what you do or how you shoot. What you do is none of my business. I do enjoy seeing different subjects and techniques. Photo stacking, panoramic, smoke, waterdrop and so on. RAW or JPG.
selmslie wrote:
While you have accomplished your dramatic intent, the result had nothing to do with exposing to the right, the scene's dynamic range, developing from raw or the peculiar color balance you have set in your camera. It's all in the settings you used during the color conversion to B&W.
I demonstrated this in
Creating a Dramatic B&W Cloud Image using a JPEG snapshot from an iPhone:
That took about two minutes in Capture One Pro. Of course, I could have taken another few seconds to level it.
While you have accomplished your dramatic intent, ... (
show quote)
Capture One Pro seems to do really nice B&W conversions. I played with the image with ACR and was not happy with my result on your image. I had to use Nik Silver Efx Pro to get anything close.
If you want to reply, then
register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.