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Balancing the Advantages of Mirror-less over DSLRs, and Vice-Versa.
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Jul 15, 2019 03:09:29   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
Haydon wrote:
Open a map and look. With luck you won't need help in directions.


Oh, Haydon … I don't NEED directions!!! … There are several ways to get to Milford from here.

I've even been to Milford Photo once or twice …

But, it's a very long haul from here - let me tell you.

I've NEVER lived in Danbury, btw … but, New Fairfield used to be considered part of Greater Danbury.

So, if you say you're in the Danbury area - folks KNOW where you mean. If you say NF - they scratch their heads - or think you meant Fairfield - which is about the same distance THIS side of Bpt. Milford is the other!

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Jul 15, 2019 03:13:29   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Chris T wrote:
If you came to this Thread, expecting ME to delineate it for you - I don't have the answers. I suspect, those who've made the plunge, and still use DSLRs as well, could make the case for you, better than I. With the introduction of Nikon's Z series, just a short while, ago … and, then, the subsequent introduction of Canon's R - followed by the more affordable RP - there are now two choices in each camp - to compete with the likes of Sony's seven? - is it? … and Fuji's APS-C offerings. I wish I had the answers to give you, but, I don't. The Canon RP - seems in many ways a more sensible choice than the almost equally new 6D2 … but the latter still beckons more strongly. I jumped ship from Canikon in 2014 to offerings from both Sony and Pentax in order to gain IBIS - which I thought would contribute to greater stability in my images. It did. So, if I were to jump into Mirror-less - it would make sense to go for a Z6 (or Z7) which BOTH incorporate IBIS - right?
So, please convince me, some of you - which would be the most logical route to take. My lenses include a dozen EOS (only two of which are EF-S) and a little over a half-dozen Nikkors (2 of which are OEM, with the other five being Sigma or Tokina glass.) Pricewise - I can envision managing $1300 for the RP, but that's it!
If you came to this Thread, expecting ME to deline... (show quote)


I have some experience with non-DSLR cameras. But I am not up on it to really give a discussion of pros and cons between DSLR and MILC yet. As everyone can see from my tag line I shoot Pentax, both film and digital, and large format film cameras. I also have a strange Fujifilm X-100T I bought for my wife. This Fuji is not exactly a MILC as it only has one lens, an attached 23mm on a APS-C sensor hybrid mirrorless but both electronic and optical rangefinder camera. The X-Pro2 is similar but takes changeable lenses. What I thought might be a simple digital EVF / OVF hybrid rangefinder I found was a really complex camera and beyond my wife's skill level. Mine pretty much as well. She actually seems to do well with my Pentax K-5 so I may give her that camera and then buy a used K5iis for myself. I'm also considering selling the odd but Leica-like cute X-100T and buying a Fuji X-E3 strictly MILC EVF, no rangefinder weirdness. I think I'd like a fuji 35mm lens for a X-E3 as well as a fuji 60mm Macro lens. With an adapter I can use all my Pentax lenses as well. I just now think the X-100T, X-100F and X-Pro2 are too much camera for us. So you can see I am open to MILC but just have not quite found my way yet. Oh, the X-100T (16MP) takes great images (though very different looking than my Pentax ones). I'd bet the X-100F (24MP) and other Fujifilm cameras are knockouts! Their sensors are not regular Bayer Array sensors and that give a more film-like look. That is my take on this so far. Nothing really to argue about.

Oddly Pentax had a APS-C MILC several years ago, the K-01 that used an everyday K-mount. But it seemed to only be available in the USA for a short time, though I think they may still be selling them in Japan. They do seem to be available used for a very reasonable price. But I never bought one years ago as they lack a lot of professional features and the sensor was no step up from the K-5 16MP one at the time. I wonder what Ricoh's plans are for Pentax MILC.

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Jul 15, 2019 03:27:29   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
lamiaceae wrote:
I have some experience with non-DSLR cameras. But I am not up on it to really give a discussion of pros and cons between DSLR and MILC yet. As everyone can see from my tag line I shoot Pentax, both film and digital, and large format film cameras. I also have a strange Fujifilm X-100T I bought for my wife. This Fuji is not exactly a MILC as it only has one lens, an attached 23mm on a APS-C sensor hybrid mirrorless but both electronic and optical rangefinder camera. The X-Pro2 is similar but takes changeable lenses. What I thought might be a simple digital EVF / OVF hybrid rangefinder I found was a really complex camera and beyond my wife's skill level. Mine pretty much as well. She actually seems to do well with my Pentax K-5 so I may give her that camera and then buy a used K5iis for myself. I'm also considering selling the odd but Leica-like cute X-100T and buying a Fuji X-E3 strictly MILC EVF, no rangefinder weirdness. I think I'd like a fuji 35mm lens for a X-E3 as well as a fuji 60mm Macro lens. With an adapter I can use all my Pentax lenses as well. I just now think the X-100T, X-100F and X-Pro2 are too much camera for us. So you can see I am open to MILC but just have not quite found my way yet. Oh, the X-100T (16MP) takes great images (though very different looking than my Pentax ones). I'd bet the X-100F (24MP) and other Fujifilm cameras are knockouts! Their sensors are not regular Bayer Array sensors and that give a more film-like look. That is my take on this so far. Nothing really to argue about.

Oddly Pentax had a APS-C MILC several years ago, the K-01 that used an everyday K-mount. But it seemed to only be available in the USA for a short time, though I think they may still be selling them in Japan. They do seem to be available used for a very reasonable price. But I never bought one years ago as they lack a lot of professional features and the sensor was no step up from the K-5 16MP one at the time. I wonder what Ricoh's plans are for Pentax MILC.
I have some experience with non-DSLR cameras. But... (show quote)


Mike - Fuji provides several Film Simulation Modes in their cameras. Perhaps - that's what you're seeing?

The Pentax K-01 was available here, as was their other Mirror-less series, but neither went over too well.
I think Ricoh is winding down the Pentax line. They've discontinued the K-30 and K-50. The K-S1 & K-S2 are also now history. (They both looked pretty good to me, too!) The K-3 series has been abandoned, as the K-5 series had been, before that. The K-7 is now ancient history. Only things left now, in APS-C are the K-70 and the KP. The K-1 FF and the update - the K-1 II are really all that are being pushed. The 645Z seems to be managing to hold its status as the cheapest MF DSLR, though ….

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Jul 15, 2019 03:38:06   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
Haydon wrote:
I remember you mentioning living in Danbury. I guess with your reputation, moving is compulsory. We still have shops in CT. You would have to get out of your house away from the keyboard to find them and that's unlikely. I don't get out much? You're the one without any pictures.


I never said I lived IN Danbury, Haydon. "Moving is compulsory"??? What on earth are you talking about?

I've been in the same house for 46 years!!!! …

Just because I don't choose to plaster my photographs on every single page of this site - doesn't mean I don't have any. As a matter of fact - I just posted a new series a couple of days, ago. But, you, obviously, missed them, Haydon. … And, let me assure you - I've shot, literally - millions of photographs ….

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Jul 15, 2019 09:26:32   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Chris T wrote:
I never said I lived IN Danbury, Haydon. "Moving is compulsory"??? What on earth are you talking about?

I've been in the same house for 46 years!!!! …

Just because I don't choose to plaster my photographs on every single page of this site - doesn't mean I don't have any. As a matter of fact - I just posted a new series a couple of days, ago. But, you, obviously, missed them, Haydon. … And, let me assure you - I've shot, literally - millions of photographs ….


Do you have a link to your new series?

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Jul 15, 2019 10:40:33   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
RichardTaylor wrote:
Do you have a link to your new series?


I'd like to see them too, Chris, but I couldn't find that post. What are you shooting with these days?

Andy

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Jul 15, 2019 11:58:15   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
Chris T wrote:
I doubt very much whether the sensor in both the a6300 and D7200 is the same, Greg. The former is a compact camera. The D7200 is still available. Why, I even know a place which has a brand new D90!!!!

I did this post - in order to get an assessment from those few UHH'ers who have BOTH FF MILC systems and FF DSLRs. Your status in reference to that - wasn't the same - before, and isn't now, either …

I don't expect there will be any newer way, anytime soon. I think MILCs are it - as far as "newness" !!!
I doubt very much whether the sensor in both the a... (show quote)


Perhaps I misstated, the D7200 and A6300 both have Sony sensors. Both are APS-C cameras. Same size sensors.
I checked both BB and B&H, and neither sell the D7200 new, although B&H showed a D7200 refurb, and one new D90, for over $300.00. Interesting that they would have a D90. I didn’t check other dealers.

I had both a DSLR and a mirrorless camera at the same time, and found I used the mirrorless (A6300) more, and preferred that camera over the Nikon. So I sold the Nikon. You asked for opinions, and I thought I gave mine. Chris, you need another cup of coffee this morning.

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Jul 15, 2019 13:12:18   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
AndyH wrote:
I'd like to see them too, Chris, but I couldn't find that post. What are you shooting with these days?

Andy


My primary GO-TO, Andy - is my Sony alpha a77 II …

But, I also, occasionally shoot with my Canon EOS Rebel T4i … when I'm feeling brave …

Also, the camera I'm most likely to take on my walks is my Nikon D5500 …

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Jul 15, 2019 13:21:57   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
Wingpilot wrote:
Perhaps I misstated, the D7200 and A6300 both have Sony sensors. Both are APS-C cameras. Same size sensors.
I checked both BB and B&H, and neither sell the D7200 new, although B&H showed a D7200 refurb, and one new D90, for over $300.00. Interesting that they would have a D90. I didn’t check other dealers.

I had both a DSLR and a mirrorless camera at the same time, and found I used the mirrorless (A6300) more, and preferred that camera over the Nikon. So I sold the Nikon. You asked for opinions, and I thought I gave mine. Chris, you need another cup of coffee this morning.
Perhaps I misstated, the D7200 and A6300 both have... (show quote)


I rarely drink coffee, Greg … Herb Tea - my favorite is Black Cherry Berry …

Not sure why you think I'm off-color. Is it because I pointed out the sensors MUST be different, as the a6300 is a compact MILC and the D7200 is a ProSumer DX? … I don't see why you would think the sensor is the same. One uses MILC technology, and an EVF … the other one is a DSLR with an OVF - THIMK!!!

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Jul 15, 2019 13:25:32   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
Chris T wrote:
I rarely drink coffee, Greg … Herb Tea - my favorite is Black Cherry Berry …

Not sure why you think I'm off-color. Is it because I pointed out the sensors MUST be different, as the a6300 is a compact MILC and the D7200 is a ProSumer DX? … I don't see why you would think the sensor is the same. One uses MILC technology, and an EVF … the other one is a DSLR with an OVF - THIMK!!!


The cameras are different, but they both have APSC sensors of the same or nearly the same size, both made by Sony. That was my point. Having owned both, I do know the differences, and I don't prefer one over the other. The rest is minutia.

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Jul 15, 2019 14:50:35   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
Wingpilot wrote:
The cameras are different, but they both have APSC sensors of the same or nearly the same size, both made by Sony. That was my point. Having owned both, I do know the differences, and I don't prefer one over the other. The rest is minutia.


The MP is exactly the same, or NEARLY the same?

Greg - if the number is even a FRACTION off - THAT should tell you!

Sony is very careful about that … check it - would you?

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Jul 15, 2019 15:33:56   #
etaoin Loc: Wichita, KS
 
For me, size matters, but probably not the way you think. I'm 71 years old with large, semi-arthritic hands and have a hard time handling my D750 without the battery grip. A smidgen of weight/size reduction doesn't matter to me. Now if the Z series came with a "battery grip", I might consider it ... some day. For now, I'm most happy with a "full-size" body.

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Jul 15, 2019 22:24:22   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
Chris T wrote:
The MP is exactly the same, or NEARLY the same?

Greg - if the number is even a FRACTION off - THAT should tell you!

Sony is very careful about that … check it - would you?


I don’t think the slight difference(s) in the pixel count is worth the effort to figure out or worry about that. Again, this is minutia. Like, “This is a gallon of water, give or take a few drops.”

I believe I’m done here.

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Jul 16, 2019 05:14:34   #
Hammer Loc: London UK
 
I really understand this question. Confusion is rife.

Being a Nikon DSLR shooter,I thought that the Z series were the answer to my prayers, lighter weight, real time exposure in the viewfinder and silent shooting . Then the reviews start to hit.

Lots of stuff about banding which some experts say is rubbish unless you are 5 stops under exposed.

The weight advantage is out of the window with a long lens. The real time exposure in the Z series is said to only up to F5.6 and does not take account of focus breathing .

The great thing about my DSLR (D850) is the control layout, whereas the Z series stuff can be buried in sub menus .

My now physical limitations make me dream of the mirrorless but I can't bring myself to give up the D850 or splash out on a second camera. If only I had a servant .

I do not know which way to turn on this , so will be looking at this thread with great interest.

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Jul 16, 2019 05:26:05   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
RichardTaylor wrote:
What are you trying to achieve with a new camera purchase?
Go into a camera store, handle the different models, and look through the viewfinders.
What feels best for you, what will be the intended use and how easy are they to use.
That may help you make a decision.
You may find you do not need to buy more gear, to improve your photography.


What feels best is not necessarily what will be best. Especially when the topic is Mirrorless v DSLR.

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