Where does a crop sensor body fit into a kit of FF cameras? (Page 4): I am the OP and the differences I referred to were what I saw on my 27" monitor. Guess I need to set up my cameras...

DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA

Unclehoss wrote:

Honest question, not trying to be a smart aleck. For all who argue against cropping a full frame, how big are you going to print that end resultant image? Do you require the full 30 MP to print to the 30" x 36" print? Or is 5x7, 8x10 in the album the biggest you will print, thus negating your argument against cropping?

I am the OP and the differences I referred to were what I saw on my 27" monitor. Guess I need to set up my cameras on a "rifle rack" and then grab what's best without the delay of changing lenses, which BTW was hampered due to the recently purchased tripod ring on my 70-200 that interferes with dismounting the body.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

LFingar wrote:

Pixel density is the difference. Crop a 30mp FF image to the size of a 20mp crop sensor image and the FF image will become an 11.7mp image (with Canon. Nikon slightly different) while the crop sensor remains 20mp. If you crop the crop sensor images you of course lose pixels but you also have to crop the FF image further so the same ratio still applies.

Unless it isn't. Pixel density on the D850 is almost exactly the same as pixel density in the D500.

DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA

[. But, alas I compromise for my needs vs the budget and I have done both crop sensor and now full frame and don't see going back to a crop sensor for my primary use.[/quote]

Key word here is "primary use".

PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA

Given the extreme loss of pixels when cropping a FF, I would think a cropped sensor body is worth having. Of course, I am biased, all I own are crop sensors. Some are smaller than an APS-C.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

DaveyDitzer wrote:

I am the OP and the differences I referred to were what I saw on my 27" monitor. Guess I need to set up my cameras on a "rifle rack" and then grab what's best without the delay of changing lenses, which BTW was hampered due to the recently purchased tripod ring on my 70-200 that interferes with dismounting the body.

Really? Tripod ring interferes with removing the lens from the camera's body? What lens and camera do you have?

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

PHRubin wrote:

Once again I need to point out that cropping a FF by 1.6 to match the view of a crop camera creates a significant loss of pixels.
A 5D IV has 30.4 MP but once cropped you are left with 30.4/1.6/1.6 = 11.8MP. A modern cropped sensor is 20 MP or greater.

How did you come up with that formula, I figured the area of the larger sensor divided by the area of the smaller sensor to get a multiplying factor for the smaller sensor, you and I come up with numbers that are close but definitely different.

PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA

Blurryeyed wrote:

How did you come up with that formula, I figured the area of the larger sensor divided by the area of the smaller sensor to get a multiplying factor for the smaller sensor, you and I come up with numbers that are close but definitely different.

A Canon cropped sensor is shorter on both length and width by a factor of 1.6. Therefore 30MP/1.6/1.6=11.7MP
Alternately, the area of a ff is 864mm². A Canon cropped is 329mm². So 30MP*(329/864)=11.4MP
Both calculations are, obviously, approximations.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

rfmaude41 wrote:

Actually it's more like 11.72 MP, not 18+; [30/(1.6X1.6) = 11.719]

OK, I will accept your math.
I taught History, Geography and Government, not math. Math and I just sort of nod in passing and think "Do I know that guy?"

LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY

larryepage wrote:

Unless it isn't. Pixel density on the D850 is almost exactly the same as pixel density in the D500.

Yes, they are close, although the FF is still at a slight disadvantage. I doubt that it is enough to be readily noticeable though. If everyone has a D850 or 5DS available then cameras such as the D500 or 7DII have little to offer in terms of resolution. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, the difference in pixel density between a FF and an APS-C can still be a factor for many people.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Blurryeyed wrote:

Well think about this, when you can fill the frame... (show quote)

The key is "fill the frame", as in get closer. That often is not possible when doing birds, sports etc. Esp for fat old guys with a sometimes bad leg.

By the way, nice shot of the pelican.

LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY

robertjerl wrote:

OK, I will accept your math.
I taught History, Geography and Government, not math. Math and I just sort of nod in passing and think "Do I know that guy?"

I hope you were less boring then my 12th grade History teacher!

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

PHRubin wrote:

A Canon cropped sensor is shorter on both length and width by a factor of 1.6. Therefore 30MP/1.6/1.6=11.7MP
Alternately, the area of a ff is 864mm². A Canon cropped is 329mm². So 30MP*(329/864)=11.4MP
Both calculations are, obviously, approximations.

Most published references I have seen for the EOS R crop cite the 11.6MP figure.

DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA

Blurryeyed wrote:

Really? Tripod ring interferes with removing the lens from the camera's body? What lens and camera do you have?

Camera is a Nikon Df and lens is Nikon 70-200f4

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

...I think a great combo is FF and crop sensor. My duo are the D5 and D500, I carry both when in the field and feel secure in that I'm prepared...good scout that I am. ;0) The big gun is the best camera I own, but that D500 is *really* good for sporting events where I need the stretch and subjects are just too far off to crop the FF.

Unclehoss

DaveyDitzer wrote:

[. But, alas I compromise for my needs vs the budget and I have done both crop sensor and now full frame and don't see going back to a crop sensor for my primary use.[/quote]

Key word here is "primary use".

I doubt I will use my crop sensor enough now for me to warrant buying one, since I had it first and did not get rid of it, it may get used.

Your comparison of both images on the same monitor is a valid comparison. If you have the funds available and the time to invest in photography, go for the crop sensor to round out your stable.