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I need some help....PLEASE!
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Aug 17, 2012 20:46:33   #
silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.
 
jimberton wrote:
eskiles wrote:
You did not say if you were using autofocus or manual focus, Possibly a miscalibrated autofocus or maybe your eye isn't seeing the picture well. Did you use the same printer as the other photographer? There are many cause and effect situations. If your lense is showing clearer shots at differing stops use that information and shoot there. Each camera/Lense setup is different and producing the exact same results you need each component to be the same!



sorry for leaving that out..i use autofocus. i didn't see if he was manual focussing. a good point. thanks.

wow....too many things going on.
quote=eskiles You did not say if you were using a... (show quote)


Always use manual focusing for this kind of photography.

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Aug 17, 2012 21:35:29   #
Zero_Equals_Infinity Loc: Canada
 
jimberton wrote:
Zero_Equals_Infinity wrote:
As already discussed it is not a hardware issue, but a physics one. Hence, the rule you have to live with is do not stop down further than about F10. Do not be concerned with the "recipe" just be aware of the physical limitations of smaller apertures.

Tilt-shift lenses are an ace in the photographer's sleave, because proper use of them can give you the equivalent of stopping down a normal lens further.

The things that are worth keeping from your instructor's class are notes on lighting, as good product photography is mostly about composition and lighting. That is why your results were great when all you did was reduced the aperture back to f9 or f10.
As already discussed it is not a hardware issue, b... (show quote)


i agree.........but why was his shots excellent at f22?...and they were still a tad better than mine at f10. mine were very close, but still not as good....and i used a tripod with wireless shutter control and he hand held his.

for a printer..he just had a little HP photo printer that could only print out 4x6 size.

the clarity of his shots were awesome. my shots were very good at f10, but his was definitely a step better.

maybe i am going too far on this....but i cannot get it out of my mind. that level of clarity is my goal. i want that.

but sometimes...maybe more than not...do we always get what we want.
quote=Zero_Equals_Infinity As already discussed i... (show quote)


You have the answer in front of you. On a 4" x 6" it looked great. Now try printing 12" x 18" or 16" x 24" and see how it looks. Dollars to navy beans the softness of diffraction grabs your attention, compared to shooting at f8 or f10. With my D800, I hate stopping down further than f9 if I can possibly help it, (which is one of the reasons why I love my tilt-shift lens so much.) The D7000 has a comparable pixel density and is just as sensitive to shooting in the sweet range of apertures for your lenses.

I agree that focus stacking is an excellent choice for product photography. Use an ultra-sharp macro lens and go nuts, (if time is available.) The main impediment for me would be the manual setting of the focus rail. An automated/calibrated rail would go alone way to making the process painless.

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Aug 17, 2012 22:12:50   #
twowindsbear
 
Here's yet another 'wrench' to throw into the machinery. What about Image Stabilization or Vibration Reduction - are you using it with your camera on the tripod? THAT could be causing the 'softness' you're seeing.

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Aug 17, 2012 22:59:39   #
ronz Loc: Florida
 
I have the 17-55 Canon and in food shots sometimes go to f22 and have never had what you are speaking of. Can't imagine it is the lens that is the problem, not that Canon is perfect as we know. I rarely use any lens at that setting, even shooting at horse races I rarely go above 11 or16 on occasion. I have always felt the best exposures are more open but just personal opinion. Many food shots require a higher setting if client demands all in focus and I can't convenience them otherwise of the effects available to them. I was looking at a pizza shop photos a few days ago (large national company) and was surprised at how soft a few of the shots were in their entirety. Would love to hear what caused your problem. Good luck

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Aug 17, 2012 23:50:05   #
Goldwinger Loc: Boynton Beach Florida
 
BboH wrote:
Nothing to add - just posting so I'll get the follow up posts as they are added. This is quite fascinating.


You can just hit the watch button at the top of the post .

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Aug 18, 2012 00:46:32   #
D0r1neK Loc: Connecticut
 
Why don't you just ask the photographer what he did?

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Aug 18, 2012 00:55:48   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
Nikonian72 wrote:
Mogul wrote:
Printer and/or paper? Ink? Monitor calibration? Brand of card? Brand of tubes in lights? Ambient light? Even ambient humidity in some settings can create different results. Now, combine all the variables, write them down, take a match, burn them, and do it the way that works for you!
All of these factors are moot. Read original post. OP has acceptable results using identical settings & procedure, with only difference being f/10 vs f/22.

And different cameras, lens, lighting equipment, maybe time of day. There has to be a variable somewhere. And I did manage to struggle through the original post; as a matter of fact, it was rather well written. If you are so sure all the variables listed are moot, you come up with a definitive explanation!

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Aug 18, 2012 01:24:21   #
country Loc: back woods
 
jimberton wrote:
jackm1943 wrote:
Correct, and it's much worse at any given f stop with crop frame cameras than with full frame cameras. I have good lenses and they all go soft at f22 on my crop frame camera.


Nikonian72 wrote:
This phenomenon is known as circular aperture diffraction, aka lens diffraction. This is a problem with all lasers, and with digital photography through small apertures (usually noticeable at f/22). Associated terms: Airy's Disc & circle of confusion.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/cirapp.html
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/diffraction.html
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-diffraction.shtml
Correct, and it's much worse at any given f stop w... (show quote)


yep, my 7d is a crop sensor....but isnt the d7000 a crop sensor also?
quote=jackm1943 Correct, and it's much worse at a... (show quote)


yes it is...

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Aug 18, 2012 01:24:43   #
Neville Loc: Melbourne Australia
 
you may also explore calibrating your lenses to see if they
are focusing correctly... or simply use Live view and manual focus at X10.
print out some downloadable PDF charts,

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Aug 18, 2012 01:40:10   #
alycat Loc: Canton OH
 
Just bought a Tamron f 10-24. Shot at all apatures for a test. Some looked better than others, even f16, but f22 was auful.

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Aug 18, 2012 01:57:13   #
Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA
 
Mogul wrote:
There has to be a variable somewhere. And I did manage to struggle through the original post; as a matter of fact, it was rather well written. If you are so sure all the variables listed are moot, you come up with a definitive explanation!
You stopped reading too soon. Very next post following OP's first: Circular Aperture Diffraction, which was re-iterated several more times by other photographers in following pages.

This is exactly why OP will be comparing camera/lens combos head-to-head.

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Aug 18, 2012 02:20:44   #
Jackinthebox Loc: travel the world
 
twowindsbear wrote:
How about posting the photos?? Scan the print from the seminar & scan a similar print that you've made. Let us 'see' the difference between the 2 shots.


Yes, it seems to be the sensible thing to do.
Post it in "store original" or forget sbout it.

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Aug 18, 2012 02:27:58   #
Jackinthebox Loc: travel the world
 
twowindsbear wrote:
jimberton wrote:
twowindsbear wrote:
How about posting the photos?? Scan the print from the seminar & scan a similar print that you've made. Let us 'see' the difference between the 2 shots.



i am getting the d7000 and lens monday or tuesday.....i will post shots from the nikon set and the canon set.


No, that's not what I mean. Your shots with the 2 cameras will show what YOU accomplish with the 2 cameras. I'd like to see what the photog at the seminar was able to produce, compared to the shot(s) you're making that aren't up to your standards.
quote=jimberton quote=twowindsbear How about pos... (show quote)


I just tuned in to this topic and scanned thru the postings. The more I read the more bogus it all sounds.
The op has mostly been credible before but perhaps needs to listen to his wife on this one.
Do you really have the previous experience claimed and attend a paid siminar and come away so messed up?

Something is bogus.

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Aug 18, 2012 04:06:49   #
Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA
 
Jackinthebox wrote:
I just tuned in to this topic and scanned thru the postings. The more I read the more bogus it all sounds.
The op has mostly been credible before but perhaps needs to listen to his wife on this one.
Do you really have the previous experience claimed and attend a paid siminar and come away so messed up? Something is bogus.
E-W! There you are! We wondered when you would return. Hate & discontent, as usual. By the way, proper spelling is seminar.

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Aug 18, 2012 04:07:29   #
krispix Loc: London - UK
 
twowindsbear wrote:
jimberton wrote:
twowindsbear wrote:
How about posting the photos?? Scan the print from the seminar & scan a similar print that you've made. Let us 'see' the difference between the 2 shots.



i am getting the d7000 and lens monday or tuesday.....i will post shots from the nikon set and the canon set.


No, that's not what I mean. Your shots with the 2 cameras will show what YOU accomplish with the 2 cameras. I'd like to see what the photog at the seminar was able to produce, compared to the shot(s) you're making that aren't up to your standards.
quote=jimberton quote=twowindsbear How about pos... (show quote)


I think that's what he's offering to do next week. I'm going to wait and see what's posted.

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