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The ILIS vs. IBIS Wars ... which is a better implementation, and for which applications?
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Feb 19, 2019 23:39:59   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
User ID wrote:
`



In my own use, Sony has no problems with IBIS
and OIS/OSS running simultaneously ... but I'm
not noticing it performing better than IBIS alone
[a7XX with A-mount] nor better than OIS/OSS
alone [a6000 with native OSS lens]. No problem
or interference if both run but no distinct benefit
noticed by me, and plz note that I'm frequently
working dim light and slow shutter times.

OTOH, Panasonic's claim that "Dual IS" is better
than either OIS or IBIS alone DOES seem, from
my use, to be really true. Panasonic OIS comes
in two flavors with silly names: "Power OIS" and
"Mega OIS" and they state that only "Power" can
combine with IBIS to create Dual IS. That also is
observable, in my experience.

So, I'm not seeing any "battle" between OIS and
IBIS. My Canon and Nikon SLRs running IS/VR
seem to provide about equal levels of IS as from
the IBIS alone in my Sonys [A-mount lenses on
a7XX and a6500 IBIS bodies].

Admittedly, any of the above that provides just a
1 stop improvement over another would escape
my notice. But by in-use observation, any 2 stop
improvement would be noticed, and on that basis
I feel that Panasonic Dual IS does offer 2 stops,
or very close to 2 stops. No hard data, but I am
doing my "most comfortable" hand held dim light
shooting with Panasonic Dual IS.

.
` br br br br In my own use, Sony has... (show quote)


My only experience, USER ID - is with my Sony alpha a77 II and a Sigma 105 OS HSM Macro. Sigma recommends turning OFF the OS for use with this camera. If you do not - what happens - is - both OS and IBIS battle for priority … and the results are not so peachy ….

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Feb 19, 2019 23:53:59   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
wdross wrote:
With Olympus, when the lens has IS, it is used along with the body IS at the same time. They have algorithms that utilizes both IS systems at the same time for the most optimized IS.


Yes, this is true, WD … and, when used with one of two or three OLY lenses, one can achieve, supposedly - 5.5 stops of stabilization with the E-M1 Mk. II, and 7.5 stops with the new E-M1X … absolutely amazing!!!!

Herewith - a quote from an Olympus spokesperson:

Sersuya Katakoa from Olympus says : "The in-body stabilisation itself gives 5.5 steps, and the Sync IS gives 6.5 steps with OIS lenses. 6.5 stops is actually a theoretical limitation at the moment due to rotation of the earth interfering with gyro sensors."

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Feb 20, 2019 00:04:13   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
wdross wrote:
When Olympus stated that the E-M1mrII, with either the 12-100 f4 Pro IS lens or the 300 f4 Pro IS lens, is 6.5 stops IS. It is not a hedged figure. The new E-M1X is going to be 7.5 stops IS with the same lenses. With the new 150-400 f4.5 Pro IS lens + 2X teleconverter coming out, there is a potential for that to be a handheld range lense of 300 to 2000 in angle of view terms. I am putting my bet on Olympus pulling it off.


2000mm equivalent to FF, WD? … How'd you come up with that?

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Feb 20, 2019 00:09:01   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
burkphoto wrote:
Lumix bodies with IBIS are Dual IS or Dual IS II compatible. The Dual IS schemes use BOTH IBIS and ILIS at the same time, provided you have a lens with ILIS that is compatible.

IBIS is generally best with focal lengths shorter than 200mm full frame, 150mm APS-C, or 100mm Micro 4/3. ILIS is better with longer focal lengths. But both work some at all focal lengths.


Bill - all this is pertinent to Pannys, only, though - right?

You can't use an Oly OIS lens on a Panny, and expect to get DUAL ILIS, now can you?

Nor, can you use a Dual ILIS Panny lens on an Oly and get DUAL ILIS - right?

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Feb 20, 2019 00:14:25   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
burkphoto wrote:
Lumix bodies with IBIS are Dual IS or Dual IS II compatible. The Dual IS schemes use BOTH IBIS and ILIS at the same time, provided you have a lens with ILIS that is compatible.

IBIS is generally best with focal lengths shorter than 200mm full frame, 150mm APS-C, or 100mm Micro 4/3. ILIS is better with longer focal lengths. But both work some at all focal lengths.


Bill … you shouldn't depend on IBIS on an APS-C camera, longer than 150mm (35mm equiv.) huh?

So - you need ILIS in lenses of 180mm or above - is that right?

What about shaking - transmitted to the body … from YOUR body … doesn't IBIS help there?

Regardless of the focal length in use?

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Feb 20, 2019 00:26:33   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Chris T wrote:
Bill … you shouldn't depend on IBIS on an APS-C camera, longer than 150mm (35mm equiv.) huh?

So - you need ILIS in lenses of 180mm or above - is that right?

What about shaking - transmitted to the body … from YOUR body … doesn't IBIS help there?

Regardless of the focal length in use?


From personal experience (I can show images) IBIS helps a lot, especuially when shooting hand held with long lenses (in 35mm FOV terms) at relatively slow shutter speeds. Even with shorter focal length lenses it may also allow a lower iso and/or smaller aperture to be used in lower light levels.

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Feb 20, 2019 00:35:16   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
RichardTaylor wrote:
From personal experience (I can show images) IBIS helps a lot, especuially when shooting hand held with long lenses (in 35mm FOV terms) at relatively slow shutter speeds. Even with shorter focal length lenses it may also allow a lower iso and/or smaller aperture to be used in lower light levels.


Sure, Richard … if you'd like to share a few - go right ahead …

So, you're in agreement with me, then - are you?

a) select an IBIS-based camera … b) attach an ILIS lens … c) have at it … right?

What about those manufacturer recommendations which prompt you NOT to combine????

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Feb 20, 2019 00:54:32   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Chris T wrote:
Sure, Richard … if you'd like to share a few - go right ahead …

So, you're in agreement with me, then - are you?

a) select an IBIS-based camera … b) attach an ILIS lens … c) have at it … right?

What about those manufacturer recommendations which prompt you NOT to combine????


For myself, with my current cameras (and I am not planning on buying anything else, unless something fails) It's either one or the other but not both.

The example in #2 IBIS allowed the ISO to be relatively low (2500)
.

F=300mm (in 35mm fov terms) 1/50 @ f2.8 (wide open) ISO 12800 Hand held
F=300mm (in 35mm fov terms) 1/50 @ f2.8 (wide open...
(Download)

F=104mm (in 35mm fov terms) 1/100 @ f2.8 (wide open) ISO 2500 Hand held pano
F=104mm (in 35mm fov terms) 1/100 @ f2.8 (wide ope...
(Download)

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Feb 20, 2019 01:20:03   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Chris T wrote:
Yes, this is true, WD … and, when used with one of two or three OLY lenses, one can achieve, supposedly - 5.5 stops of stabilization with the E-M1 Mk. II, and 7.5 stops with the new E-M1X … absolutely amazing!!!!

Herewith - a quote from an Olympus spokesperson:

Sersuya Katakoa from Olympus says : "The in-body stabilisation itself gives 5.5 steps, and the Sync IS gives 6.5 steps with OIS lenses. 6.5 stops is actually a theoretical limitation at the moment due to rotation of the earth interfering with gyro sensors."
Yes, this is true, WD … and, when used with one of... (show quote)


It is 5.5 stops IS if one does not use an IS lens (5.5 is IBIS) on the E-M1mrII. The E-M1mrII with an IS lens is 6.5 stops.

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Feb 20, 2019 01:34:27   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Chris T wrote:
Bill … you shouldn't depend on IBIS on an APS-C camera, longer than 150mm (35mm equiv.) huh?

So - you need ILIS in lenses of 180mm or above - is that right?

What about shaking - transmitted to the body … from YOUR body … doesn't IBIS help there?

Regardless of the focal length in use?


I shoot without a tripod easily using my 50-200 f2.8/3.5 (100-400 in 35mm angle of view terms). There is no IS in that older lens. And it is easily handholdable. It can easily be shot at 1/15 of a second handheld. The IS does work at any focal length, but the longer the lens the faster the the speed has to be relative to that 5.5, 6.5, or 7.5 stops. Normal would be 1/500 without IS. With IS, all of a sudden 1/15 becomes a possiblity. Good technique is and will always be required, but the tripod will not necessarily be required.

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Feb 20, 2019 01:45:47   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
RichardTaylor wrote:
For myself, with my current cameras (and I am not planning on buying anything else, unless something fails) It's either one or the other but not both.

The example in #2 IBIS allowed the ISO to be relatively low (2500)
.


Not bad for 12,800, Richard …

The Pano is neat, too … looks pretty wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide …

How'd you manage that???

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Feb 20, 2019 01:52:42   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Chris T wrote:
Not bad for 12,800, Richard …

The Pano is neat, too … looks pretty wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide …

How'd you manage that???


Thanks
Probably 5 horizontal hand held shots with about 1/3 overlap between shots. Stitched in LR using the panorama function. It was a lot easier than I thought.
It was a lot easier than I thought.

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Feb 20, 2019 01:54:10   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
wdross wrote:
It is 5.5 stops IS if one does not use an IS lens (5.5 is IBIS) on the E-M1mrII. The E-M1mrII with an IS lens is 6.5 stops.


And the E-M1X with an OIS lens - takes that up another full stop, supposedly, WD …

Which defies their OWN statement - vis-à-vis - the turning of the earth's axis ….

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Feb 20, 2019 01:55:50   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
RichardTaylor wrote:
Thanks
Probably 5 horizontal hand held shots with about 1/3 overlap between shots. Stitched in LR using the panorama function. It was a lot easier than I thought.
It was a lot easier than I thought.


Probably, huh?

Don't remember, exactly, huh, Old Soul?

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Feb 20, 2019 02:01:44   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Chris T wrote:
2000mm equivalent to FF, WD? … How'd you come up with that?


The new 150-400 comes with the 1.25X teleconverter built in. Turned on, the lens is now a 188-500 (375-1000 angle of view) at about f5. Add on the 2X teleconverter. Now one has a 375-1000 lens (750-2000 angle of view) at about f10. It looks to be about 15 or 16 inches and about 4 or 4.5 pounds (comparing it to the 300 f4). And since the 300 is $2500, my best guess is $5000, maybe more.

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