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The ILIS vs. IBIS Wars ... which is a better implementation, and for which applications?
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Feb 19, 2019 21:56:24   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
Now the Nikon Z6 and Z7 have appeared with built-in IBIS, joining the crowd of cameras which incorporate it - mainly those made by Sony and Pentax, along with all Olympus MFT models, and some Panasonic MFT models - many of which are said to have "Dual ILIS" - we are faced with a conundrum of sorts. Where do we implement DUAL ILIS - in what situations? … And, what problems are we likely to encounter when we do?

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Feb 19, 2019 22:07:43   #
PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago
 
[quote=Chris T]Now the Nikon Z6 and Z7 have appeared with built-in IBIS, joining the crowd of cameras which incorporate it - mainly those made by Sony and Pentax, along with all Olympus MFT models, and some Panasonic MFT models - many of which are said to have "Dual ILIS" - we are faced with a conundrum of sorts. Where do we implement DUAL ILIS - in what situations? … And, what problems are we likely to encounter when we do?[/quoteIt will ]become the holy grail 'must have' feature in photographic tech circles

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Feb 19, 2019 22:30:08   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
[quote=PixelStan77]
Chris T wrote:
Now the Nikon Z6 and Z7 have appeared with built-in IBIS, joining the crowd of cameras which incorporate it - mainly those made by Sony and Pentax, along with all Olympus MFT models, and some Panasonic MFT models - many of which are said to have "Dual ILIS" - we are faced with a conundrum of sorts. Where do we implement DUAL ILIS - in what situations? … And, what problems are we likely to encounter when we do?[/quoteIt will ]become the holy grail 'must have' feature in photographic tech circles
Now the Nikon Z6 and Z7 have appeared with built-i... (show quote)


I guess it already is, Stan … and thanks for your input …

Ideally, then - you seem to be suggesting - DUAL ILIS - is a boon for EVERY photographic situation, or no?

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Feb 19, 2019 22:38:47   #
User ID
 
`

Chris T wrote:
........
- we are faced with a conundrum of sorts. Where do
we implement DUAL ILIS - in what situations? … And,
what problems are we likely to encounter when we do?


In my own use, Sony has no problems with IBIS
and OIS/OSS running simultaneously ... but I'm
not noticing it performing better than IBIS alone
[a7XX with A-mount] nor better than OIS/OSS
alone [a6000 with native OSS lens]. No problem
or interference if both run but no distinct benefit
noticed by me, and plz note that I'm frequently
working dim light and slow shutter times.

OTOH, Panasonic's claim that "Dual IS" is better
than either OIS or IBIS alone DOES seem, from
my use, to be really true. Panasonic OIS comes
in two flavors with silly names: "Power OIS" and
"Mega OIS" and they state that only "Power" can
combine with IBIS to create Dual IS. That also is
observable, in my experience.

So, I'm not seeing any "battle" between OIS and
IBIS. My Canon and Nikon SLRs running IS/VR
seem to provide about equal levels of IS as from
the IBIS alone in my Sonys [A-mount lenses on
a7XX and a6500 IBIS bodies].

Admittedly, any of the above that provides just a
1 stop improvement over another would escape
my notice. But by in-use observation, any 2 stop
improvement would be noticed, and on that basis
I feel that Panasonic Dual IS does offer 2 stops,
or very close to 2 stops. No hard data, but I am
doing my "most comfortable" hand held dim light
shooting with Panasonic Dual IS.

.

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Feb 19, 2019 22:46:52   #
aikiboy
 
I have a Lumix G85 with dual IBIS. It's pretty impressive, and I only have the first generation version. I get very good handheld and can't imagine going without it. The only downside is remembering to turn it off when using a tripod.

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Feb 19, 2019 22:59:50   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Chris T wrote:
Now the Nikon Z6 and Z7 have appeared with built-in IBIS, joining the crowd of cameras which incorporate it - mainly those made by Sony and Pentax, along with all Olympus MFT models, and some Panasonic MFT models - many of which are said to have "Dual ILIS" - we are faced with a conundrum of sorts. Where do we implement DUAL ILIS - in what situations? … And, what problems are we likely to encounter when we do?


With Olympus, when the lens has IS, it is used along with the body IS at the same time. They have algorithms that utilizes both IS systems at the same time for the most optimized IS.

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Feb 19, 2019 23:08:36   #
papaluv4gd Loc: durham,ct
 
Gotta love those olympus cameras. I have 2 original e-m1 models and one e-m5. These things had features built into them back in 2014 that most other big name guys are just discovering. Love these little gems.

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Feb 19, 2019 23:12:14   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Chris T wrote:
I guess it already is, Stan … and thanks for your input …

Ideally, then - you seem to be suggesting - DUAL ILIS - is a boon for EVERY photographic situation, or no?


I have seen a 10 second handheld shot with the E-M1mrII. I have heard of one 20 second handheld shot with the new E-M1X. 5 second shots are not that hard to do with either the E-M1mrII or the E-M1X. I personally have shot a 4 second handheld shot and have displayed 2 second handheld shots on this site. How many 5 or 10 second handheld shots have any of us seen from any other camera other than Olympus or Panasonic?

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Feb 19, 2019 23:18:29   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
wdross wrote:
I have seen a 10 second handheld shot with the E-M1mrII. I have heard of one 20 second handheld shot with the new E-M1X. 5 second shots are not that hard to do with either the E-M1mrII or the E-M1X. I personally have shot a 4 second handheld shot and have displayed 2 second handheld shots on this site. How many 5 or 10 second handheld shots have any of us seen from any other camera other than Olympus or Panasonic?


Handheld, WD? ... Don't think I have ... 5-10 seconds, huh? ... That's pretty damned amazing!!!!

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Feb 19, 2019 23:20:07   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
RTFM. It’s that simple.

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Feb 19, 2019 23:23:16   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
papaluv4gd wrote:
Gotta love those olympus cameras. I have 2 original e-m1 models and one e-m5. These things had features built into them back in 2014 that most other big name guys are just discovering. Love these little gems.


It sure seems that way, huh, Papa? … Everyone wants on the bandwagon, now …

Look what happened when the E-M1X with AI was announced …

Sony immediately announced a firmware update to the a9 - which INCLUDES AI !!!!

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Feb 19, 2019 23:26:10   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
Cdouthitt wrote:
RTFM. It’s that simple.


Ya got ma there, C … RTFM? … What's that mean?

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Feb 19, 2019 23:32:09   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
aikiboy wrote:
I have a Lumix G85 with dual IBIS. It's pretty impressive, and I only have the first generation version. I get very good handheld and can't imagine going without it. The only downside is remembering to turn it off when using a tripod.


A Lumix G85, eh, Aiki?

What's that? … A pocketable compact? … You need a tripod for it, do you?

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Feb 19, 2019 23:32:23   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Chris T wrote:
Handheld, WD? ... Don't think I have ... 5-10 seconds, huh? ... That's pretty damned amazing!!!!


When Olympus stated that the E-M1mrII, with either the 12-100 f4 Pro IS lens or the 300 f4 Pro IS lens, is 6.5 stops IS. It is not a hedged figure. The new E-M1X is going to be 7.5 stops IS with the same lenses. With the new 150-400 f4.5 Pro IS lens + 2X teleconverter coming out, there is a potential for that to be a handheld range lense of 300 to 2000 in angle of view terms. I am putting my bet on Olympus pulling it off.

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Feb 19, 2019 23:33:28   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Chris T wrote:
Now the Nikon Z6 and Z7 have appeared with built-in IBIS, joining the crowd of cameras which incorporate it - mainly those made by Sony and Pentax, along with all Olympus MFT models, and some Panasonic MFT models - many of which are said to have "Dual ILIS" - we are faced with a conundrum of sorts. Where do we implement DUAL ILIS - in what situations? … And, what problems are we likely to encounter when we do?


Lumix bodies with IBIS are Dual IS or Dual IS II compatible. The Dual IS schemes use BOTH IBIS and ILIS at the same time, provided you have a lens with ILIS that is compatible.

IBIS is generally best with focal lengths shorter than 200mm full frame, 150mm APS-C, or 100mm Micro 4/3. ILIS is better with longer focal lengths. But both work some at all focal lengths.

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