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Protecting yourself and your equipment while out in the Wilds
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Feb 11, 2019 15:57:44   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
That is very sad.

I am in the wilderness much of the year. I worry about those carrying firearms, as people are whipped up more and more into a frenzy of fear and suspicion by self-promoting and dishonest demagogues (which is why this subject is inescapably political) and are carrying while suffering "the willy Jillies the whole time" and constantly looking over their shoulders in fear and suspicion. That is a dangerous combination. I also look out for irresponsible ATV operators. But for the most part I don't see anyone, and experience no fear - day after day week after week, year after year for 50 years in remote wilderness areas.

Don't go out into the wilderness if you are that frightened. Fearful people are trigger-happy people.

Mike
That is very sad. br br I am in the wilderness m... (show quote)


Unarmed people where they should be armed are dead and or stupid people. Sorry, I don't know a nicer way to put it.

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Feb 11, 2019 16:06:06   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Retired CPO wrote:
Do you not see or hear the news? There are several stories every year about hikers disappearing forever or found later dead, maimed, raped etc. Yes several per year, doesn't sound like a lot unless you or yours are the ones making the headlines. But that's only the national news. How many more are there that only make the local news if at all. Seems like the only ones to make the news are the prominent or pretty ones. And yes, mostly women. All women should be life members of the National Rifle Association.
You don't say "stop or I'll shoot", you say "STOP" and 1/2 second later you say "I wonder if he's dead or the threat is eliminated yet or do I need to shoot him again?" And if in doubt, by all means take that extra shot. If there are extenuating circumstances, yes I might feel bad later. But I will be alive and the threat to me and other good citizens will have been eliminated. It's called doing what has to be done. Buck up buttercup and do your duty to yourself and your fellow citizens.
Do you not see or hear the news? There are several... (show quote)


So, I guess if a deaf person approached you for help they would be dead before you learned that about them. I think you are the threat to the safety of the rest of us. But of course, you "might feel bad later" so I guess that still makes you a "good guy" and still makes the person you just murdered the "bad guy."

Law enforcement agencies say crime is down, significantly down. Who says otherwise? Those standing to profit from ramping up fear among the public - firearms manufacturers and their lobbyists, dishonest political demagogues, and sensationalist media outlets, that is who.

From the Pew Research Center:

Opinion surveys regularly find that Americans believe crime is up nationally, even when the data show it is down. In 18 of 22 Gallup surveys since 1993 that have asked about national crime, at least six-in-ten Americans said there was more crime in the U.S. compared with the year before, despite the generally downward trend in national violent and property crime rates during most of that period.

Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. The two most commonly cited sources of crime statistics in the U.S. both show a substantial decline in the violent crime rate since it peaked in the early 1990s. One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in approximately 18,000 jurisdictions around the country. The other is an annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.

Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span. (For both studies, 2017 is the most recent full year of data.) The long-term decline in violent crime hasn’t been uninterrupted, though. The FBI, for instance, reported increases in the violent crime rate between 2004 and 2006 and again between 2014 and 2016.

Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. FBI data show that the rate fell by 50% between 1993 and 2017, while BJS reports a decline of 69% during that span. Property crime includes offenses such as burglary, theft and motor vehicle theft, and it is generally far more common than violent crime.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

Mike

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Feb 11, 2019 16:16:52   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Some sunlight into your shadows of fear was intended to help. There should be no fear when you're having fun.


Fear, no. Reasonable caution, yes. The bad guys out there don't give a rats patootie whether you are having fun or not.

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Feb 11, 2019 16:24:07   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
So, I guess if a deaf person approached you for help they would be dead before you learned that about them. I think you are the threat to the safety of the rest of us. But of course, you "might feel bad later" so I guess that still makes you a "good guy" and still makes the person you just murdered the "bad guy."

Law enforcement agencies say crime is down, significantly down. Who says otherwise? Those standing to profit from ramping up fear among the public - firearms manufacturers and their lobbyists, dishonest political demagogues, and sensationalist media outlets, that is who.

From the Pew Research Center:

Opinion surveys regularly find that Americans believe crime is up nationally, even when the data show it is down. In 18 of 22 Gallup surveys since 1993 that have asked about national crime, at least six-in-ten Americans said there was more crime in the U.S. compared with the year before, despite the generally downward trend in national violent and property crime rates during most of that period.

Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. The two most commonly cited sources of crime statistics in the U.S. both show a substantial decline in the violent crime rate since it peaked in the early 1990s. One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in approximately 18,000 jurisdictions around the country. The other is an annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.

Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span. (For both studies, 2017 is the most recent full year of data.) The long-term decline in violent crime hasn’t been uninterrupted, though. The FBI, for instance, reported increases in the violent crime rate between 2004 and 2006 and again between 2014 and 2016.

Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. FBI data show that the rate fell by 50% between 1993 and 2017, while BJS reports a decline of 69% during that span. Property crime includes offenses such as burglary, theft and motor vehicle theft, and it is generally far more common than violent crime.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

Mike
So, I guess if a deaf person approached you for he... (show quote)


Come on Mike... The WILLIE JILLIES were for the bears...They get pretty big in Montana; not to mention mountain lions which you may have to choke with your bare hands. lets not get things confused here. I live in an AG community also and I DO lock my doors at night ! Especially. with a mother k*****g deranged attorney on the loose possibly not far from me. Everyone I know carries a pea shooter in his belt if for nothing else for things like baby copperheads etc... that come crawling out in the spring, mean and hungry and a menace to your dogs in your FENCED in yard. Yes, be kind and compassionate to those who want to harm you; maybe your head will come off in a swift stroke instead of a slow, sawing motion.

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Feb 11, 2019 16:37:19   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
So, I guess if a deaf person approached you for help they would be dead before you learned that about them. I think you are the threat to the safety of the rest of us. But of course, you "might feel bad later" so I guess that still makes you a "good guy" and still makes the person you just murdered the "bad guy."

Law enforcement agencies say crime is down, significantly down. Who says otherwise? Those standing to profit from ramping up fear among the public - firearms manufacturers and their lobbyists, dishonest political demagogues, and sensationalist media outlets, that is who.

From the Pew Research Center:

Opinion surveys regularly find that Americans believe crime is up nationally, even when the data show it is down. In 18 of 22 Gallup surveys since 1993 that have asked about national crime, at least six-in-ten Americans said there was more crime in the U.S. compared with the year before, despite the generally downward trend in national violent and property crime rates during most of that period.

Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. The two most commonly cited sources of crime statistics in the U.S. both show a substantial decline in the violent crime rate since it peaked in the early 1990s. One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in approximately 18,000 jurisdictions around the country. The other is an annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.

Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span. (For both studies, 2017 is the most recent full year of data.) The long-term decline in violent crime hasn’t been uninterrupted, though. The FBI, for instance, reported increases in the violent crime rate between 2004 and 2006 and again between 2014 and 2016.

Property crime has declined significantly over the long term. Like the violent crime rate, the U.S. property crime rate today is far below its peak level. FBI data show that the rate fell by 50% between 1993 and 2017, while BJS reports a decline of 69% during that span. Property crime includes offenses such as burglary, theft and motor vehicle theft, and it is generally far more common than violent crime.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

Mike
So, I guess if a deaf person approached you for he... (show quote)


Mike, first, you don't know me. Don't assume that you do. I'm retired from the military and have had firearms training regularly over the last 20 years. Second, I'm a reasonably intelligent person. I can tell a person charging at me with evil intent from someone looking for help.
People without the benefit of military training can get it from the NRA or other places. And they should do it if they are going to carry. Thirdly, I've carried for decades and guess what, never had to shoot anyone. But I'm fully prepared to do so if necessary to protect myself or someone else.
Crime statistics are great and mean very little if you are unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Am I afraid of the world? No. Am I going to use appropriate precautions? Yes. Are you or anybody else going to stop me from doing so? No.

Reply
Feb 11, 2019 16:41:43   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Retired CPO wrote:
Mike, first, you don't know me. Don't assume that you do. I'm retired from the military and have had firearms training regularly over the last 20 years. Second, I'm a reasonably intelligent person. I can tell a person charging at me with evil intent from someone looking for help.
People without the benefit of military training can get it from the NRA or other places. And they should do it if they are going to carry. Thirdly, I've carried for decades and guess what, never had to shoot anyone. But I'm fully prepared to do so if necessary to protect myself or someone else.
Crime statistics are great and mean very little if you are unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Am I afraid of the world? No. Am I going to use appropriate precautions? Yes. Are you or anybody else going to stop me from doing so? No.
Mike, first, you don't know me. Don't assume that ... (show quote)


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Feb 11, 2019 16:53:53   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
MrBob wrote:
Come on Mike... The WILLIE JILLIES were for the bears...They get pretty big in Montana; not to mention mountain lions which you may have to choke with your bare hands. lets not get things confused here. I live in an AG community also and I DO lock my doors at night ! Especially. with a mother k*****g deranged attorney on the loose possibly not far from me. Everyone I know carries a pea shooter in his belt if for nothing else for things like baby copperheads etc... that come crawling out in the spring, mean and hungry and a menace to your dogs in your FENCED in yard. Yes, be kind and compassionate to those who want to harm you; maybe your head will come off in a swift stroke instead of a slow, sawing motion.
Come on Mike... The WILLIE JILLIES were for the b... (show quote)


Is Alabama more dangerous than Michigan, or are Alabama folks more scared?

Scared of snakes, too, I see. If I had a neighbor wandering around in their fenced yard (in an ag community?) shooting off a gun that would worry me far more than a snake ever would.

Mike

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Feb 11, 2019 17:00:46   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Retired CPO wrote:
Mike, first, you don't know me. Don't assume that you do. I'm retired from the military and have had firearms training regularly over the last 20 years. Second, I'm a reasonably intelligent person. I can tell a person charging at me with evil intent from someone looking for help.
People without the benefit of military training can get it from the NRA or other places. And they should do it if they are going to carry. Thirdly, I've carried for decades and guess what, never had to shoot anyone. But I'm fully prepared to do so if necessary to protect myself or someone else.
Crime statistics are great and mean very little if you are unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Am I afraid of the world? No. Am I going to use appropriate precautions? Yes. Are you or anybody else going to stop me from doing so? No.
Mike, first, you don't know me. Don't assume that ... (show quote)


I am strictly commenting on what you have posted. That is all I have to go on, and that is all that I am going on.

I am disagreeing with you, I am not telling you what to do.

The topic, which shouldn't even be here to begin with, is what do we as photographers do to protect ourselves in the wilds? You and others are worried about bad guys and think carrying a gun would be useful in the unlikely event that a mugger found you in the wilderness and charged you in full view with obviously bad intentions. I said that it is fearful and suspicious who are armed and wandering around trying to decide who is and who is not a bad guy that I worry about, and I try to avoid people like that. You may disagree with that, but it is an honest and legitimate response to the question at hand.

Mike

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Feb 11, 2019 17:02:35   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Retired CPO wrote:
Unarmed people where they should be armed are dead and or stupid people. Sorry, I don't know a nicer way to put it.


Armed people who are fearful, suspicious and ignorant are dangerous. That is as nicely as I can put that.

Mike

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Feb 11, 2019 17:06:04   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Fear is a darkroom where negatives develop ...

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Feb 11, 2019 17:12:02   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Fear is a darkroom where negatives develop ...


Ah, so it is a photography related topic after all!



Mike

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Feb 11, 2019 17:16:23   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
If you think you need a gun to protect your camera gear, you should sell your camera gear and pursue your gun hobby ...

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Feb 11, 2019 17:29:46   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Actually, it probably makes more sense to protect your gun case with a motion-activated camera. I think you are more likely to have your gun stolen than you are your camera.

I think I am going to start doing my part to fight crime by carrying a camera with me on the trail and photographing everyone who has a gun, in case they might be a gun thief.

First step in every fire investigation here: is the gun cabinet empty? If so, open a suspected arson case.

Mike

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Feb 11, 2019 17:32:38   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Our OP bought their camera to be a photographer, but their fears told them to be afraid to follow their passion.

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Feb 11, 2019 18:31:10   #
N4646W
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
So, some local newspaper posted something about local camera groups saying that the groups were advising photographers to carry guns? It is isn't very clear what you are saying there. And a law enforcement officer told you to ignore the law?

There may be a kernel of t***h in that tall tale - a rash of burglaries in an area, an ill-advised remark by a law enforcement officer, a silly article in a local newspaper. However, searching every which way from Sunday - camera thefts in California, camera groups advising firearms for photographers, etc. does not bring back anything like the situation you describe, anywhere. Of course, your vague rambling story could be true, but even if it is that doesn't tell us much of anything at all. The problem you are alluding to does not seem to exist much. Ergo, this is not about safety for photographers at all. Rather, it is an excuse to provoke so-called "culture war" feuding, which is disruptive and does not belong here.

The controversy here is not about firearms. It is about the community standards for the group. My position is that the OP, and now you, are trying to stir up trouble with a discussion that belongs in the chit chat section, at best.

It is the Sierra, not the "Sierras" btw. But maybe you are new to the area?

Mike
So, some local newspaper posted something about lo... (show quote)


Well it is the Sierra Mt. range, not the Sierra, locals call it living in the Sierras.

Yes, law enforcement does recommend carrying, not official policy, but they do look the other way for the law abiding citizen.

Nope, not trying to stir up trouble and don't think the OP was either. But it seems that you and some others do not recommend standing up for yourselves, or your loved ones. Everything is just roses. If you will "read" his topic statement it has nothing to do with politics. Folks like you have made it political. It must be wonderful to live in such an idyllic world.

As for the OP's question, my gear gets extra padding, PVC tubes for tele lenses too big for pack. Depending on how long I'm going to be out, it might be mounted to a pack frame with minimal survival gear, side arm (first two rounds are snake shot), snake bite kit, para cord, small hatchet, matches in a dry tin, thermal blanket, fish line and hooks, and most important, Snickers bars and coffee. When the snickers and coffee run out, I'm gone.

Ron

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