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A sober call from Common Cause
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Feb 4, 2019 13:40:21   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
JamesCurran wrote:
Well, first of all, because the populous had never known of anything other than a monarchy. The idea of actually v****g for your representatives was unknown to them. The President and Congress were analogous to the King and Parliment of England, but the King and House of Lords were hereditary, and while the House of Commons was elected, suffrage was granted only to the aristocracy.

So, the idea of letting everyone (while male, non-s***es) v**e for their government was a radical and untried idea. Further, on a more practical level, with no mass communication, the common people would not be expected to know a national or even statewide candidate. However, it was considered reasonable that they would be able to know (and adequately evaluate) a local candidate, hence direct e******n for members of the House of Representative. Further, they would be able to choose their local representative to their state legislatures, who could then choose their senators.


But by 1913, when the 17th amendment was passed, we now had a mass communication system. The railroads reduced travel that would have taken weeks by wagon to days or even hours. The telegraph allows instant t***smittal of information across the country. Cars were entering the picture as was AM radio broadcasts. The common person could now be expected to know about conditions beyond their hometown in a timely fashion.
Well, first of all, because the populous had never... (show quote)


So wrong.

The representatives were to represent the interest of the people, the Senators were to represent the interest of the governments of the individual states, a state legislature had the power to recall a Senator without notice should they feel they were not representing the interest of the state that sent them to the Senate. The fourteenth amendment represents the death nail of federalism.

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Feb 4, 2019 22:46:43   #
Tex-s
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Agreed that is why I did not waste time explaining.
I am in a way getting tired of trying to explain our founding and why things were done the way they were.
Sad about the lack of any true education on our founding nor any reading of the founders thoughts and debates.
PS we ARE a Christian nation in our founding precepts.


Not addressing the religious angle here, but the REASON we have so little education on the purpose, the pr********n, and the prowess of divided powers, and a divided E*******l College, in our Constitution is precisely because the party now clamoring to remove these separations has been directing (non)-education for the last 45-ish years. Instead of examining prior governments and civilizations and then looking to see what was good and what was bad, we now look to indoctrinate 6-year-olds about how declaring oneself a female while possessing male g*****lia, or vice verse, means that biology and nature are flawed and does NOT mean that said individual is suffering a delusion or other mental disorder.

Tail wags the dog daily, and even calling those 'tail' or 'dog' is r****t, sexist, species-ist, and xenophobic.....

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Feb 4, 2019 22:54:18   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
Tex-s wrote:
Not addressing the religious angle here, but the REASON we have so little education on the purpose, the pr********n, and the prowess of divided powers, and a divided E*******l College, in our Constitution is precisely because the party now clamoring to remove these separations has been directing (non)-education for the last 45-ish years. Instead of examining prior governments and civilizations and then looking to see what was good and what was bad, we now look to indoctrinate 6-year-olds about how declaring oneself a female while possessing male g*****lia, or vice verse, means that biology and nature are flawed and does NOT mean that said individual is suffering a delusion or other mental disorder.

Tail wags the dog daily, and even calling those 'tail' or 'dog' is r****t, sexist, species-ist, and xenophobic.....
Not addressing the religious angle here, but the R... (show quote)


Excellent post.

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Feb 4, 2019 23:14:10   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
Elaine2025 wrote:
So, your goal is to have the 3 most populated democrat states speak for all of the US in who gets elected?



You actually believe that??


If a candidate were to get 100% of the three most populous states, that would be 88 million people out of a country of 330 million or about 25%.

However, the #1 state is California, and the #2 state is Texas --- so I really don't think they are going to v**e for the same guy. #3 is Florida, so that's a wild card.

But, the bottom line is unless you get 100% of the v**es of a state, your theory is crazy


However, do you know what system DOES give you 100% of the v**es --- and therefore lets a handful of small states speak for the whole country??? The e*******l college.

So, thanks for proving my point.

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Feb 4, 2019 23:38:52   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
JamesCurran wrote:
You actually believe that??


If a candidate were to get 100% of the three most populous states, that would be 88 million people out of a country of 330 million or about 25%.

However, the #1 state is California, and the #2 state is Texas --- so I really don't think they are going to v**e for the same guy. #3 is Florida, so that's a wild card.

But, the bottom line is unless you get 100% of the v**es of a state, your theory is crazy


However, do you know what system DOES give you 100% of the v**es --- and therefore lets a handful of small states speak for the whole country??? The e*******l college.

So, thanks for proving my point.
You actually believe that?? br br br If a candid... (show quote)


Slept through statistics class also I see.

Now, how about confessing how abjectly wrong you have been about ... well, everything.

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Feb 4, 2019 23:46:12   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
LWW wrote:
Upon further review, and in spite of my efforts to educate my l*****t brethren ... and my continued begging that they actually would read a book, in my heart I realize that the odds of them doing so approaches zero.



Oh, my god... I don't believe. You actually tried to find historical backing for your yammering. Good for you!!

You did completely miss Madison's point, but still a good effort.


Now, you'll recall, the point of this exercise was to explain why the senators were chosen by the state legislatures. And yet in your excerpt, you skip over paragraph (II.), where he specifically addresses that issue. (Why are you quoting paragraph III, which just talks about why each state has two senators?)

II. It is equally unnecessary to dilate on the appointment of senators by the State legislatures. Among the various modes which might have been devised for constituting this branch of the government, that which has been proposed by the convention is probably the most congenial with the public opinion. It is recommended by the double advantage of favoring a select appointment, and of giving to the State governments such an agency in the formation of the federal government as must secure the authority of the former, and may form a convenient link between the two systems.

To t***slate, since by ratifying the constitution, the state legislatures would be necessarily giving up some of their power, this was to reassure them that they still had some power over the federal government.

Quote:

Put simply, the house was to represent the interests and sovereignty of the citizenry, and therefor would be elected by said citizens.

The senate was to represent the interests and sovereignty of the individual states, and therefor would be elected by said states.


Complete nonsense. It seems you don't quite understand the difference between democracies/republics and monarchy. Under a monarchy, the government is separate from the people. In a democracy, the government IS the people. BOTH houses of Congress are there to represent the interests of the people.

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Feb 4, 2019 23:48:22   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
LWW wrote:
Slept through statistics class also I see.

Now, how about confessing how abjectly wrong you have been about ... well, everything.


I'd really like to know what school has a statistics class which teaches that 25% is a majority.

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Feb 4, 2019 23:49:55   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
JamesCurran wrote:
I'd really like to know what school has a statistics class which teaches that 25% is a majority.


Think your jibba jabba through bro.

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Feb 4, 2019 23:51:34   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
JamesCurran wrote:
Complete nonsense. It seems you don't quite understand the difference between democracies/republics and monarchy. Under a monarchy, the government is separate from the people. In a democracy, the government IS the people. BOTH houses of Congress are there to represent the interests of the people.


We are neither a monarchy nor a democracy ... but thanks for confirming how uneducable and dishonest you are.

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Feb 5, 2019 00:14:44   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
JamesCurran wrote:
I'd really like to know what school has a statistics class which teaches that 25% is a majority.


Large populations of v**ers leaning toward one party can actually control the majority. In example consider that had the states of Ca. and Ny. not leaned heavily Democrat, Hillary's 3 million would have likely have disappeared.

Go here to look at the number differences by state compared to the v**e % by state.
https://www.politico.com/2016-e******n/results/map/president/

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Feb 5, 2019 08:01:25   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
letmedance wrote:
Large populations of v**ers leaning toward one party can actually control the majority. In example consider that had the states of Ca. and Ny. not leaned heavily Democrat, Hillary's 3 million would have likely have disappeared.


um... you're saying "if fewer people v**ed for her, fewer people would have v**ed for her", well.. duh.

If Texas didn't lean heavily Republican, Hillary's would have won by 4 million.

Which is the problem with the E*******l college --- it keeps dividing us by state lines. Eliminate the e*******l college, and we v**ed as one country for the president, with each person's v**e counting exactly the same amount.

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Feb 5, 2019 08:03:34   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
JamesCurran wrote:
Complete nonsense. It seems you don't quite understand the difference between democracies/republics and monarchy. Under a monarchy, the government is separate from the people. In a democracy, the government IS the people. BOTH houses of Congress are there to represent the interests of the people.


T***SLATED:

“LWW absolutely owned me on this topic so badly that I will now try to convince the audience that I, THE MIGHTY CURRAN, know more about what Madison meant than Madison himself!!! T***h and reality be damned, to save my oh so fragile ego I have invoked BAZBOTHINK so that wh**ever I believe to be true must be accepted as t***h!!!”

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Feb 5, 2019 08:12:36   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
JamesCurran wrote:
Complete nonsense. It seems you don't quite understand the difference between democracies/republics and monarchy. Under a monarchy, the government is separate from the people. In a democracy, the government IS the people. BOTH houses of Congress are there to represent the interests of the people.


I defy you to quote Madison agreeing with you.

I have tried to be kinder lately, in spite of the rude behavior from the left.

That being said, what mental illness leads you to look solidly at the evidence presented disproving what your lying liar masters have spoon fed you and ... not only do you fiercely refuse to learn, not only do you cling to the lies like a hobo to a hot ham sammich, not only do you grasp at the the thinnest of arguments like a drowning man to a reed, but you lie to this august forum with malice and forethought.

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Feb 5, 2019 08:15:58   #
WNYShooter Loc: WNY
 
Tex-s wrote:
Not addressing the religious angle here, but the REASON we have so little education on the purpose, the pr********n, and the prowess of divided powers, and a divided E*******l College, in our Constitution is precisely because the party now clamoring to remove these separations has been directing (non)-education for the last 45-ish years. Instead of examining prior governments and civilizations and then looking to see what was good and what was bad, we now look to indoctrinate 6-year-olds about how declaring oneself a female while possessing male g*****lia, or vice verse, means that biology and nature are flawed and does NOT mean that said individual is suffering a delusion or other mental disorder.

Tail wags the dog daily, and even calling those 'tail' or 'dog' is r****t, sexist, species-ist, and xenophobic.....
Not addressing the religious angle here, but the R... (show quote)


Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

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Feb 5, 2019 08:23:38   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
JamesCurran wrote:
um... you're saying "if fewer people v**ed for her, fewer people would have v**ed for her", well.. duh.

If Texas didn't lean heavily Republican, Hillary's would have won by 4 million.

Which is the problem with the E*******l college --- it keeps dividing us by state lines. Eliminate the e*******l college, and we v**ed as one country for the president, with each person's v**e counting exactly the same amount.


No, what i am saying that large populations in one our two areas do not represent the whole of the American population. They do not live in the rural areas, they have different goals and different needs, one of those needs is to have a voice in their govt, a voice that will not be heard in a pure democracy. Ask me about not having a voice in the Democratic state of Ca.

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